Thermospas - Please Help

[sblass]

We purchased a Thermospas in November 2004.  The sale was considered a stock purchase agreement (the spa was custom ordered by someone else) and for whatever reason the spa is in the warehouse for resale. We were told by the salesman that the spa was a 2004 model.  The serial number in our contract was followed by -04.   (We assumed -04 meant that the spa was custom built in 2004.)

When the spa was delivered, it was missing a part. According to the contract and the salesman, the part was installed on the spa we purchased.  We removed the panel and discovered the spa is a 2003 model and the spa was assigned a different serial number than the serial number on our contract.  According to Thermospas, their procedures are to change serial numbers on restocked spas.  Thermospas assigns a new serial number (and in this case, upgrades the spa, on paper only, to a 2004) when a spa is resold.

We have had the spa almost a month. We can still say, we have not wet tested a Thermospas.

We are trying to return the spa, unfortunately, we will loose 25% restocking fee as stated in the contract.  They also charge 25% restocking fee on the tax.

We have been more than patient in our correspondence with Thermospas upper management in trying to obtain proof that the spa in our contract is the spa that was delivered.  They have ignored answering all of our questions.  The latest is a response by their attorney stating that “they are not in violation of any warranty or any law”.  We never questioned the warranty.  We questioned the contract (missing part and serial number-year)and the laws and regulations of CT and MD.  

Do you have any suggestions on how we should proceed?

This will be posted on other message boards.  
Thanks and Happy Holiday’s.

[Chas]

NOTE: the following is an opinion. Nothing more.

If you get an attorney who knows how to rattle a cage or two - T-spa might begin returning your calls. Don't count on T-spa to actually DO anything for you, but you might get them to return your call.

Of course, you will be out the fees, and most likely still end up owning the tub. I know it's a bummer, but once a company delivers what was on the contract, they can insist that what they delivered equals what was promised. Exceptions to this are gross differences in the merchandise such as:

- wrong model
- wrong color
- a missing item clearly listed. Course if you 'win' in court, you may very simply be handed the item.
- wrong skirt material.
- etc.


If the tub works, assuming they will take care of whatever part it is that is missing, you will have a  hard time getting a judge to award a forced refund based upon having the 'wrong' numbers written on a piece of paper.

I'm not an attorney, but I doubt that changing the serial number materially changes the tub. T-spa could very easily claim that the '03 and '04 tubs are identical, and that the serial number is nothing more than a tracking number used to identify when the tub left the building. I don't know this to be a fact, really: only T-spa knows if that is a fact or not, but it is a reasonable claim which would be almost impossible to disprove.

I'm so sorry I can't think of anything real encouraging to say here: I do hope you get satisfaction out of this whole thing.

[Drewski]

Hi Sblass:

Chas is giving good advice about an attorney. Unfortunately, it means $$ out of your pocket and you don't have any guarantee of a good outcome.

My business is contracts, so I'll see if I can help.

First, I'm confused as to the "working" status of your spa. Is it running or haven't they installed the part yet?

If the spa is NOT running and was NOT in working condition when it arrived, you might have a case. If you paid by credit card, simply call the credit card company, advise them of the situation and ask them to make a "determination" regarding the purchase. In most cases, if the item is NOT in working condition, the card company will side with you and refuse to pay the vendor.  This can be a powerful technique for the consumer to use, one reason I advise people to take out a lower interest loan for purchase, buy by credit card, then pay off the card with the loan.

As to the serial number, "changing" the serial number, from an "inventory" standpoint is a VERY questionable practice. I say this because most businesses pay taxes on inventory "in stock" at the end of their tax year. This is why dealers have sales and change models at the end of the year. Ideally, you have "zero" stock (or everything SOLD) to avoid tax. Changes in serial numbers could be a tax avoidance scheme attempting to show a different year of manufacture on an item in the event of an audit.

Please post more information or PM me and I'll follow-up.

Good luck...

Drewski

:-/

[sblass]

Drewski and Chas,

Thanks for responding and I hope I answered your questions.
 
The contract states that the BRV (Blower Regulator Valve) was installed on the spa we purchased. Keep in mind we purchased a restocked spa at a discounted price.   The contract also states that the spa is a 2004 model .  The serial number in the spa is different than the serial number on our contract.  The year on the spa is 2003.  

We have not connected the spa to electricity because we are trying to get a full refund and return the spa.  

Thermospas said they will install the BRV and the Ozonator (in the contract the ozonator was to be field installed because we added it to the spa)  We have had 3 final decisions from Thermospas.  Two from Thermospas (executive committee) and one from their attorney. They are all the same.  They will install the BRV and the ozonator or we can return the spa at a 25% restocking fee.

We paid by check and I advise everyone to use a charge card when purchasing a spa.  Do not make the mistake we did.  Pay by CREDIT CARD.

I have it in writing that Thermospas changes serial numbers when a spa is restocked, and in our case, our spa originally was a 2003 and sold to us as a 2004 model.

If anyone is having difficulties with ThermoSpas, please send them an email every day.  I am only sorry that I only CC:d the president\sole owner and did not address all correspondence to him.  When I told their Director of Customer Relations that we discovered the spa had 2 serial numbers and it was questionable if the spa delivered was a 2003 or a 2004...the line went dead. FYI:  The CT BBB said that Thermospas had many complaints but they all were resolved.  

Who can I write a letter to asking if they could check into the practice of a company changing serial numbers/years to avoid taxes in the event of an audit?

Is it legal to also charge 25% restocking fee on the taxes?

Thanks for helping us out.
sblass

[Drewski]

When I told their Director of Customer Relations that we discovered the spa had 2 serial numbers and it was questionable if the spa delivered was a 2003 or a 2004...the line went dead.

Who can I write a letter to asking if they could check into the practice of a company changing serial numbers/years to avoid taxes in the event of an audit?

Try the IRS. They also have a reward program for reporting tax fraud based on a % of recovery.

On the other hand, maybe the path of least resistance will get you in the "hot water" (i.e., your SPA), fastest?

Don't know about the other stuff...

Drewski

[huh?]

If the serial number on the contract doesn't match the serial of the tub, they didn't fullfill the contract, and you might have a case (maybe not a strong one)  I am not sure if you can do anything about the check?

[jmig]

Contact the Ct. Attoney General Richard Blumenthal
55 Elm St.
Po Box 120
Hartford Ct. 06141-0120

[Spatech_tuo]

It sure sounds like they accepted a 2003 spa back from a customer for whatever reason and gave it a new serial number (and maybe had to repackage it to some degree) to make it a 2004. This is troublesome at this time of year as it’s about as far away from 2003 as you can get. If you were getting the spa in Jan/Feb that they got in a return and it had a 2003 serial number I could see the logic but in this case I have to wonder where this spa has been and if it wasn't actually in use for months.

[stuart]

If the serial number on the contract doesn't match the serial of the tub, they didn't fullfill the contract, and you might have a case (maybe not a strong one)  I am not sure if you can do anything about the check?

I would have a tendency to agree with huh?... I think you have a potential to win this as long as you have all your ducks in a row (que Chas with apropos picture here of ducks in a row).

You might take a page out of Yorag's book and post on Eopinions and ripoffreport.com. You can see his battle with CalSpa on this forum under the title of "take my cal spa...Please!"

[CaliforniaDave]

For what it is worth...you can go online and file a complaint with the Federal Trade Comminsion (FTC) on them. If you do this, I would also write a letter to Thermospas (CEO and all others you have talked to) letting them know you have done this.

If the FTC gets enough complaints they will do an official investigation in the company, which no company wants done. This may or may not get them to act for you, but it is worth a try and sets them up for other people to pile one.

I have done this with SBC (telephone) and the responses from SBC after this complaint was amazing. They made sure everything was fixed after they got a copy of the complaint from the FTC.

Of course this was a couple of weeks later, but it is nice to be called by SBC for once.

Good luck.

Dave

[stuart]

Did you get that Yorag?

[huh?]

For what it is worth...you can go online and file a complaint with the Federal Trade Comminsion (FTC) on them. If you do this, I would also write a letter to Thermospas (CEO and all others you have talked to) letting them know you have done this.

If the FTC gets enough complaints they will do an official investigation in the company, which no company wants done. This may or may not get them to act for you, but it is worth a try and sets them up for other people to pile one.

I have done this with SBC (telephone) and the responses from SBC after this complaint was amazing. They made sure everything was fixed after they got a copy of the complaint from the FTC.

Of course this was a couple of weeks later, but it is nice to be called by SBC for once.

Good luck.

Dave

If you send them a copy just make sure you don't use an "if you don't I'm gonna" phrase.  Companys will look for any reason to turn things around on you...avoid black mail, slander and defimation of character (sp?).  And it always helps to refrain from "losing your cool"

[stuart]

If you send them a copy just make sure you don't use an "if you don't I'm gonna" phrase.  Companys will look for any reason to turn things around on you...avoid black mail, slander and defimation of character (sp?).  And it always helps to refrain from "losing your cool"

Funny, you get a picture in your mind of what someone looks like and then they post a picture of themselves and completely change that perspective!

[huh?]

Well in that case

[stuart]

Well in that case

Now That's more like it!