Education on Arctic Spas

[stabone]

How can you talk about not answering questions, I've asked you guys if coleman and hydro thing use insulation on there shell, it is a yes or no question, I would have to write a novel to answer some of your questions,  and I had so many at one time, and I type slow

[stabone]

Hey guys my battery is getting low,  I really mean this, it is awesome having some heated discussion with you guys, even if you guys hate me, I have learned alot, and think alot of you brought up some good points, I look forward to chating again soon, GOOD NIGHT NOW  
Even you Steve

[spahappy]

Well I had dart leage tonight so I missed most of the fun here...

Stabone you started this educational post about Arctic with a climate controlled showroom example of how efficient your spas are.

I can talk the talk and walk the walk all day long on the  capabilities of thermal pane technology because I've sold Colemans for 10 years.

I'm amazed at the lack of respect you have for a brand like Coleman. Thay were engineering the same type of insulation you base so much of your sales hype on years before  the word arctic meant anything more than frozen tundra.  

I'm sure you belive in your product as do the rest of us. Thats why this thread is as long as it is...I'm all for putting mistruths aside as I'm sure you are...

Lets bring an Arctic spa into my backyard and hook it up next to my Coleman spa. Same weather conditions, same gallon capacity, same pump/heater size. We could run them side by side for the month of Jan. We could have full faom dealers be the judges since they have nothing to gain by the results of out study, and would be completely unbiased...

Of course Arctic has already conducted a similar study under the cover of darkness,  in the back of a refridgerated semi trailor with two engineers from Arctic and a handfull of sales reps from Arctic who will verify the results.

How far north are you? Lets do a comparison outside in my backyard during the monyh of Jan and.... {Lets get this thing started}, to quote Black Eyed Peas

Spahappy

[empolgation]

Ya know, upon seeing the subject of this topic I got a little excited..  after reading so much negative banter about Arctic I thought I would finally get to learn something genuine about the spa "designed like a Polar Bear" from someone whom was intelligent and educated about them.  

This is the extent of the Arctic Spas Education after 11 pages of reading...

- "Arctics are more similar design to that of a thermal panel"
- "I'm sure Arctics aren't better than a Coleman"
- "We have a 900 sp ft filter that filters down to 1 micron"
- "most thermal panel tubs are not using the same insulation style as Arctic"
- "There are tons of features, jets, lighting, even shell designs that I would love to see added to are line up."
- "no more cleaning of the filter just take it out every 5 months and put a new one in for only 39$ canadian"
- "with well water [the 900 sq ft filters] tend to not last as long off the first filling"

Additional education from the Arctic Salesman:
- "thermal panel spas are just full foam tubs with out the foam"
- "a Home Depot spa could sit in a show room with the cover on and hold temps like that"
- "if you take 2 equally dirty cars to a pull through car wash and ones goes through in neutral on their belt and the other goes through at 60mph which will come out cleaner. I bet there would be a big difference between the two,"
- "if you where to push a couch with enough velocity and force parts of the couch would enter the key hole"


stabone, your purpose to post here must be a sneaky hidden agenda soley to support all of the aweful things said about Arctic Spas and their sales approach, otherwise you have inadvertently presented fantastic argument to support the valididity of Arctic's "bad rap".

Thanks fer nothin...

[empolgation]

wmccall, you have my permission to move my summary to the beginning of this thread to save the poor souls from reading this entire topic to learn nothing new about Arctic Spas.

[poolboy34]

What the hell does it matter what I think a tubs operating costs are, Steve  I think you are so full of shit and I haven't heard anyone say anything about us pushing for our manufactures to get a test together that we can all agree on, you guys would rather sit here and keep believing that nothing can be improved and all your arguements revolve around the way things have always been done and if the big guys haven't done it well it's no good, well thinking like that gets you left behind,

Does Arctic hold any patents on their designs???  Any patents on their proprietary features???  Many of the so called "BIG BOYS" do in fact hold and/or have held MANY of the patents of the technologies and processes that are commonly used in the industry.  Call me crazy but companies such as Marquis, Dimension One, Watkins, and Sundance didn't become the well respected and widely known industry leading companies that they are today by relying on "old" technology or sitting on their hands.  They are constantly researching, developing, and designing new: features & shell/spa designs; new processes to make their spas more efficient; new technology, all so that they stay at the forefront of our industry.  If they didn't do these things they would fall behind.

And I should Also note that resorting to name calling, and spewing out ill-informed highly biased information is sure fire way to hurt your credibility even more.  So check your facts (not just what the marketing and PR dept. at Corporate tells ya either), do some research on the "other guys" and then we'll talk.

Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer

[ebirrane]

Stabone,

 I completely understand that you are getting quite a backlog of questions, all of which are important and moderately complex and beyond your salesman experience to address.
 
 You don't sound well versed in them, and perhaps you should read up on back logs to understand where your product really does differentiate itself (if, indeed, it does differentiate itself in an engineering sense).  So far, all I have seen is that Arctic differentiates itself with its marketing tactic.

 So, let's just cut some slack.  No more "big hard to answer" questions. Let's warm up first:

larger filters take longer for depree to slow down water flow so to put less strain on the pump

Do you mean "debris" or is "depree" an Arctic marketing word for the types of particles that Arctic spa's filter?

If we can get this answered, I'll post another.

-Ed

 

[HotTubMan]

Really with 20 of you all coming at once , How can I answer that many questions, so I will try to get to some of the more pointed questions. If you guys could wait long enough before all jumping in, First of all any thermal panel tub that has insulation on the shell of it's tub will have very little heat transfer from air space to the water,  By using a fiberglass shell with NO insulation on it you don't block the heat from the water away from the air space, nor the heat from the pumps from the water. The last coleman I  saw had insulation on the shell, How can you argue that insulation will allow the same amount of heat transfer as fiberglass!!!  To that point the more heat from the pumps that can be used to help maintain water temperature with out the heater having to turn on is more efficient!! Thermal Panel Spas with insulation on the shells only use a warm air space as insulation, that is why they are not as efficient as FF, but the benefit is the serviceabilty, and that the equipment is in a insulated air space in cold temps. This makes ours more effecient, we have you in our energy test, but you don't have us in yours???
 

Again, this thread is moving so fast , I am replying before reading allthe content.

Firstly, I have never heard anyone from Coleman state that the heat transfers through the shell, its through the plumbing. Once again you are showing that you know one way  and you beleive its the only way. Heat transfers in through the plumbing on a Coleman

Secondly, you are saying that heat transfers through fiberglass, and that is exactly what your "superior" sealed bottome is composed of!

Lets talk also about the "slits" in two opposing panels of the Arctic spa, which if placed correctly in your backyard would allow the prevailing winds to travel right through your "sealed" cabinet. Now if allthe heat transfersup throught the fiberglass, what is the purpose of these slits? Only thing I can think of is ventilation. If Arctic has corrected this engineering flaw in the last 12 months, please correct me and accepot my aplogy for bringing it up and not shopping the product recently.

HTM

[stuart]

Again, this thread is moving so fast , I am replying before reading allthe content.

Firstly, I have never heard anyone from Coleman state that the heat transfers through the shell, its through the plumbing. Once again you are showing that you know one way  and you beleive its the only way. Heat transfers in through the plumbing on a Coleman

Secondly, you are saying that heat transfers through fiberglass, and that is exactly what your "superior" sealed bottome is composed of!

Lets talk also about the "slits" in two opposing panels of the Arctic spa, which if placed correctly in your backyard would allow the prevailing winds to travel right through your "sealed" cabinet. Now if allthe heat transfersup throught the fiberglass, what is the purpose of these slits? Only thing I can think of is ventilation. If Arctic has corrected this engineering flaw in the last 12 months, please correct me and accepot my aplogy for bringing it up and not shopping the product recently.

HTM

Very good point here HTM all I have to add is that we are avoiding the obvious, if first and foremost your heating the water with an electric element and not depending entirely on the "Cabinet Heat" then wouldn't you be more concerned with what can travel out of the shell than into it? I thought the point was to make the shell a self contained unit that doesn't allow things like heat to "eek" in and out! If you don't insulate the shell so that you can allow the motor heat to creep in then, as many have asked already, wouldn't that make it even more susceptible than most spas for the heat to creep back out when the motors are not running and not providing radiant heat? I'm sure that Chas touched on this somewhere but your electronic equipment, motors and even pluming will have a greatly diminished life span simply because of the volatile heat environment that they are kept in! They need to be cooled much like a car engine needs cooled with a radiator less the parts get hysteresis (where the flex of an item cannot return to original shape or setting because of wear, fatigue or molecular changes). In almost every field electronics have a cooling fan on them to prevent excess heat on the CPU's and Chips yet your creating an environment contrary to that.....?

This would also apply to glue joints, you bashed the use of barb, clamp and glue to tout the way your spa is plumed saying that it was impossible to do a repair in that type of situation, isn’t the point to gluing two items together so that you can’t get them apart? So if you fatigue the glue with constant and extreme heat, breaking it down over time, wouldn’t you want the extra support of barb and clamp?

Stabone, you are very passionate about defending the way Arctic does things but obviously have no background in engineering and electronics. If you do than your ethics might be a bit askew because your ignoring the laws of physics to make sure your gravy train keeps coming.

BTW, In case you’re wondering I do have a background in Physics, Electronics, Thermodynamics, Engineering and more. I spent years of my life in Nuclear Metrology, in addition to many, many years in the spa industry.

[Chas]

I spent years of my life in Nuclear Metrology, in addition to many, many years in the spa industry.

"Nuclear Metrology," that's the big prison outside of Chino, isn't it? How many years of your life did you spend there?

Kidding !! Actually, some of my best friends are into Neutron Metrology. One of them has an HPGe gamma-ray spectrometer (59 keV to 1408 keV - they're saving for a larger model) in her basement.

I guess you didn't want a "standard" life anymore?

[salesdvl]

I just wanted to let you all know that I am working on a script based on this ongoing saga.

I'm thinking Steve's role will be played by George Clooney.  I was thinking Stuart to be played by Harrison Ford but since he just stated his background in Nuclear Metrology I'm now thinking a more studious type like Anthony Hopkins.
Stabone of course will be played with cerebral excellence by Sylvester Stallone.

[Chas]

I just wanted to let you all know that I am working on a script based on this ongoing saga.

I'm thinking Steve's role will be played by George Clooney.  I was thinking Stuart to be played by Harrison Ford but since he just stated his background in Nuclear Metrology I'm now thinking a more studious type like Anthony Hopkins.
Stabone of course will be played with cerebral excellence by Sylvester Stallone.

"Hey Adrian, get me a towell, will ya?"

[Chas]

Or - "Cut me Nick, cut me! Just don't let it drip into the spa!"

[Chas]

I'm thinking of Patrick Stewart for my part. What do you think?

[salesdvl]

i was gonna go with Brad Pitt for you Chaster but if you would rather Have Mr. Stewart then ..... Make it So.