Filtration

[windsurfdog]

Now - even though our tubs are listed through ETL - we still build and test to that same UL standard, which has been updated over the years for better safety.

Chas, since there are very few of us Master Spas supporters on this board, I just wanted to state, without creating any controversy or making any insinuations regarding your post, that Master Spas are UL listed.

Also, please help me understand HotSprings' filtration:

If left unattended for a 24 hour period, do the HotSprings therapy pumps come on automatically for a period of time or does just the 24 circ pump run by itself for the entire period?

Thanks, man....

[steve771]

(This was actually stated by the one who shall not be mentioned.)

Brewman

Is this like the Harry Potter thing?    VALDAMONT! (sic)  There, I said it!  

[poolboy34]

Cool, Thanks Chas.  

[Lori]

Chas, since there are very few of us Master Spas supporters on this board, I just wanted to state, without creating any controversy or making any insinuations regarding your post, that Master Spas are UL listed.

Also, please help me understand HotSprings' filtration:

Thanks, man....

So, I know I'm not Chas, but I own a HotSpring.  The pumps do not come on.  Just the circ pump.  It runs 24/7, so there is no need for the jet pumps to come on to circulate the water to filter.  That is why he brought up no bypass filtering.  (I think, please correct me if I am wrong, Chas)

[ebirrane]

Something that I have heard Chas state before (and Chas, please correct me if I mis-state here):

Normally, just a 24 hour circulation pump is only going to draw X amount of water through the filters per day.  
Often, just moving X amount of water per day is not enough and many tubs also kick on the jets for a while (30-40 minutes 3-4 times a day is not unheard of, right?).  This makes more water go through the filters, yielding better filtration.

Hot springs have 5 filters instead of 1 or 2, and the new tri-x filters that hot spring uses have much more square footage than many other tubs (at least this was true when I poked around on this several months ago).  So, drawing the water through those 5 deep filters X times per day does yield adequate filtration.

I imagine, of course, this assumes that you use the tub a couple of times per week.

My grandee has a bunch of water, and I do not, yet, have the tri-x filters, so I would imagine filtering the tub is a good test of the system.  If I don't use the tub and don't add my MPS every day it will get cloudy in about 3 days with "old water" and about 4-5 days with new water.

Adding the MPS and running the jets on a clean cycle (20 minutes - once per day) and we never have a problem.

When water is cloudy, a shock and running 2 or 3 clean cycles back to back then next morning the water is clear again.

Whatever is happening, it seems to be working just fine.

-Ed

[Chas]

The jets do not come on for extra filtration - they cannot be programmed to do so.

For most people, this works fine. Some folks find the need to go out and poke the "clean button" every so often, but for most you just use that feature after you get out of the tub.

Ed, I think you might not get the cloudy water after four of five days if you did one of two things:

Slow down!! For heaven's sake, why on earth would anyone go four or five days without using their tub !!!

Or, more seriously, you might want to try a dose of Dichlor instead of the MPS. Maybe every time, or maybe alternating. It generally sticks around longer, and is quite a bit more potent as an oxidizer, and it is a santizer to boot. Give it a shot, you can easily go back to MPS.... I hate to mess with success: your system is working, but give it a shot.

[poolboy34]

Normally, just a 24 hour circulation pump is only going to draw X amount of water through the filters per day.  
Often, just moving X amount of water per day is not enough and many tubs also kick on the jets for a while (30-40 minutes 3-4 times a day is not unheard of, right?).  This makes more water go through the filters, yielding better filtration.

Hot springs have 5 filters instead of 1 or 2, and the new tri-x filters that hot spring uses have much more square footage than many other tubs (at least this was true when I poked around on this several months ago).  So, drawing the water through those 5 deep filters X times per day does yield adequate filtration.

The larger 2 pump modles that Hot Spring has have 5 filters, 4 (2 each) for the jet pumps, and 1 for the circ pump.  The other models they offer have 3 filters, 2 for the jet pump and 1 for the circ pump.  Keep in mind that if you don't use the spa for a week, the only filter in use is the one that is in line with the circ pump due to the fact that many of the models Hot Spring offers do not have a set filtration cycle for the jet pumps.  Do Hot spring spas have excelent filtration??? YES  Do most of the top manufacturers have excelent filtration??? YES  Seriously, show me a spa made by a top manufacturer that DOESN'T have adequate filtration???  Pretty tough isn't it???

Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer

[matthewc]

Blimey

I only wanted to know how long to run my filtration for? I guess it's a bigger subject than i though. I think i will just stick to my two 4 hour cycles!

Matt

[Brewman]

Consider the "chatter" the price you pay for the advice you get!

Go ahead with your plan, and if your water stays clear, and tests out ok, they you're good to go.  You can always adjust the timing if you need to.

I have mine set for 4 filter cycles a day, for 30 minutes each.  That keeps my water nice and clear.  But I also have a circulation pump running 24 X 7 which is also filtering the water.  And I'm guessing that the filters on your spa are different than the ones on mine.  
Brewman

[windsurfdog]

Do Hot spring spas have excelent filtration??? YES  Do most of the top manufacturers have excelent filtration??? YES  Seriously, show me a spa made by a top manufacturer that DOESN'T have adequate filtration???  Pretty tough isn't it???

Jason,
Store Manager for a D-1 & Caldera Dealer

I think Jason hits the nail on the head....there are many successful approaches to reach the same goal of sanitation......and I agree with him.  The only question I might raise is this:  There is water that can remain uncirculated in the HotSprings' therapy pumps' plumbing unless human intervention takes place.  Over a period of days without human intervention, would this have the ability to compromise water sanitation?  Could this cause a buildup of bacteria in the therapy pumps' plumbing?  Mind you, I'm playing devil's advocate here out of curiosity.....I believe HotSprings' filtration methods are top notch though I feel the 100% filtration issue is overstated as a feature that puts HotSprings filtration above all others.

[UnderTheStars]

That's a good question WSD.  My HS manual recommends if going away for a few (3 - 5) days shock before leaving AND again when you return.  I hadn't really given it much thought but you probably just nailed the reason for the "double shock."

kinda related, I had a service tech out a couple months back on a minor issue.  He gave me a lot of "not in the manual" wisdom.  One tip was to leave the waterfall valve open just enough to allow a slight trickle from the water feature.  His reason was to allow sanitizer to move through the pvc line.  I hadn't thought about the therapy jet lines when the tub sits idle.  .  .for HS owners I guess it puts new meaning in the above advice,  "Why on earth would anyone go four or five days without using their tub!!!"

[Chas]

The only question I might raise is this:  There is water that can remain uncirculated in the HotSprings' therapy pumps' plumbing unless human intervention takes place.  Over a period of days without human intervention, would this have the ability to compromise water sanitation?  Could this cause a buildup of bacteria in the therapy pumps' plumbing?

No. There is a small line which ties the small circ pump to various parts of the spas - areas such as the Moto Massage cavity, the filter well, and the jet plumbing. Hop into a HotSpring spa, get settled and then turn on the jets. (Tell them they look especially beautiful in candlelight) - you will feel hot water right from the start. That's one of those engineered feature which doesn't show up in the brochure...

[UnderTheStars]

Cool!  I didn't really need an excuse to not let the tub sit idle!  But what about that water feature line - was my service tech. "slightly left of well informed" & am I wasting my time leaving it on "trickle" all the time?

[Lori]

I don't have a waterfall (they added that after I bought  ) but I looked at a spa that had them available.  That is the same advice, UTS, that the dealer gave me, if I bought one.  To me, it would be insurance, even if it circulated through that system, having a trickle couldn't hurt.

[Chas]

Cool! But what about that water feature line - was my service tech. "slightly left of well informed" & am I wasting my time leaving it on "trickle" all the time?

Actually, on the spas with waterfeatures a little trickle is a good thing. Those systems are not part of the constant flow. I know when I start my 'Bella Fontana' on my Vista, it moves a bit of cold water at first.