Shock: MPS or Dichlor?

[bulmer4nc]

We are using Bromine in our spa with an ozonator and the Spa Frog.  We're only about 2 weeks into new water and we've got a bit of haze to the water.  Probably a stretch to say that it's really cloudy but it's definitly not crystal clear either.

We've tried clarifier and shock a couple of times and the Alk/Ph seem to be ok (Alk is about 80 and ph is around 7.6)  Hardness is fine too at around 200 and the bromine level is around 2ppm right now.  But I think that's also fine as we have an ozonator and spa frog.

Based on another thread it looks like I was shocking with too little MPS.  Our bottle said 2 tbsp (1.5oz) for 500 gallons was about right.  Sounds like that is only 1 oz. and not enough.  I figured this was likely the cause of our 'haze'.  So, I shocked again last night with 2.5oz (5tbsp) and there doesn't appear to be much difference.

I see a lot of talk on this board about shocking with dichlor instead of MPS.  Is this for people that use dichlor as a sanitizer?  Or does this apply to those using bromine as well?

Any suggestions on what I should try to get rid of my hazey water?  I've cleaned the filters and ran longer filtration cycles and that doesn't appear to do much either.  Or should I expect it to take longer than overnight after shocking to see a difference?  I guess I can go down the road of trying what others have suggested and try the cycle of shock / clarifier until I see a difference.  I would think that I shouldn't have to do this with 2 week old water though.

Guess my big concern right now is that I'm shocking properly and using the right shock for my current chemical choices.  2oz a week of MPS should do the trick with bromine/ozone/spa frog right?

Any thoughts?

[bulmer4nc]

Well... Didn't get much feedback here.

Anyhow, the 'haze' seems better.  3 oz of SeaKlear clarifier seemed to do the trick.   Even with that much there's no foam.  I got tons of foam when I used the Liesure Time Bright and Clear.  Interesting...

As for shock, does anyone out there have any thoughts on the best way to shock a bromine spa?  As it stands right now I'm using MPS but still wonder if shocking with dichlor is a better way to go as it is suggested here so many times.

And, is it true that MPS will only increase TDS when you are using dichlor as a sanitizer?

Ken

[Dave_L]

Ken,

I am very new to the water chemistry game. We have had our Jacuzzi (approx 375 gallon capacity)hot tub for approx 2 months, and use bromine as a sanitizer with weekly MPS shocks.  Until 2 weeks ago I used a 2 part  bromine system. The MPS is unbuffered pool shock.

I find I have been able to maintain crystal clear water for approx 6 days a week. Usually the last day the water will have a a very slight haze to it.  The tub is used daily (2-3 people) and there is usually one multiple (4-5 hours)  hour social that occurs on a weekly basis. The users generally do not shower before entering the tub.

I have found that adding sanitizer a couple of hours before the weekly social will help keep the water clear.

On  a weekly basis I add 2 tablespoons of the unbuffered MPS and run both pumps for approx 1/2 hour. I then add some alkalinity increaser with the goal of keeping alk at 120 ppm.  I also check that pH is in range. I then add approx 2 tbps of polymer and run all pumps with air injection for approx 40 minutes. There is usually some "sludge" along the water line that needs to be removed. I then switch-out the filters. The water remains crystal clear for the next 6 days with daily sanitizer addition.

As stated above, approx 2 weeks ago I switched from the 2 part bromine system to a combined dichlor and bromine sanitizer. Results-Water clarity has been very good and the system is easier to use.

Hope this helps.

Dave

 

[bulmer4nc]

Ken,

I am very new to the water chemistry game. We have had our Jacuzzi (approx 375 gallon capacity)hot tub for approx 2 months, and use bromine as a sanitizer with weekly MPS shocks.  Until 2 weeks ago I used a 2 part  bromine system. The MPS is unbuffered pool shock.

I find I have been able to maintain crystal clear water for approx 6 days a week. Usually the last day the water will have a a very slight haze to it.  The tub is used daily (2-3 people) and there is usually one multiple (4-5 hours)  hour social that occurs on a weekly basis. The users generally do not shower before entering the tub.

I have found that adding sanitizer a couple of hours before the weekly social will help keep the water clear.

On  a weekly basis I add 2 tablespoons of the unbuffered MPS and run both pumps for approx 1/2 hour. I then add some alkalinity increaser with the goal of keeping alk at 120 ppm.  I also check that pH is in range. I then add approx 2 tbps of polymer and run all pumps with air injection for approx 40 minutes. There is usually some "sludge" along the water line that needs to be removed. I then switch-out the filters. The water remains crystal clear for the next 6 days with daily sanitizer addition.

As stated above, approx 2 weeks ago I switched from the 2 part bromine system to a combined dichlor and bromine sanitizer. Results-Water clarity has been very good and the system is easier to use.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Thanks for your commends Dave.  At this point I haven't quite given up on Bromine tablets in the weir gate and MPS for shocking.  I'm going to go a few more weeks with shocking once a week with 2oz (4tbsp) of MPS and will probably try 1oz of the SeaKlear clarifier weekly (or more if it helps) too and see how things go.  I've used 4 oz of that clarifier since Sat. and there's been no signs of any foam.  Guess we'll just wait and see.  

Ken

[Aztec]

This is a subject about which I am still cloudy after a number of years as a spa owner. Why do we need to SHOCK at all? There must be someone who can provide a reasonable explanation. I'm all eyes.

[cparlf]

Hi Bulmer4NC.  I have an 04 Optima.  I posted this a while back, but will do a short version here.  My dealer has me on the following program:  I use "National Pool" house brand bromine tablets, three in the basket.  Sometimes I toss in an extra when the three get worn down, but essentially try to keep 3 full tabs or the equivalent at all times.  I use Diamond Sani Spa dichlor 97% after each use or maybe not exactly every use.  Certainly no more than 3 soaks between use.  I toss in about a table measuring device amount and let the pump and blower run for a few minutes.  Re cloudy water, I have found the filter needs cleaning when the water gets cloudy.  Maybe hose it out every 10 days top two weeks.  If it gets cloudy, a ounce of "Spa Blue" gunk seems to clear the water after a filter cycle or two.  The only problems I really get is when teenaged daughter units and friends soak, with hair gel and whatever else they slather on.  Then, I get the foam and a dirty filter almost the next day.  Also, beware of non rinsed bathing suits.  Daughters tend to put three loads of wash in at a time, and I think the rinse cycle does not clear the soap from the suits.  Both are in college now, and suits are not usually an issue anymore.  Good luck.

[bulmer4nc]

Thanks for the info cparlf.  So, you're bromine tablets and doing small shocks with dichlor a few times a week (or more)?  You're not doing a big weekly shock at all?

As for the filters, I've been hosing them off every Saturday and every 4 weeks I use the spray cleaner.

Ken

[stingfan]

bulmer4NC

SeaKlear clarifier works differently than others.  It does not create a foam like the Spa Brite and Clear.  It binds together the organics and makes larger particles so that they will get trapped and held by the filters.  That is why you are not seeing any foam.  I prefer the SeaKlear over the others for this reason.

[Drewski]

Hey Aztec:

“Shocking” is used for killing organic compounds (algae, other bugs, etc) that slowly accumulate in your water, even in the presence of sanitizer, over time.  I suppose a good analogy might be found in washing a car.  You might wash it weekly to keep it “clean”, but at some point it will need to be stripped (or buffed out) and new wax applied to restore the finish that has dulled over time.  

High temperature water is a difficult medium to keep free of organic compounds, no matter how hard you try.  You could dramatically increase base sanitation to eliminate organics completely, BUT, you still have to sit in and enjoy the water.  Unless you’re Tony Stark (aka “Ironman”) HIGH sanitation is a little rough on the skin.  So, instead, we settle for a once weekly treatment to kill off the bad stuff.  This takes care of the problem while simultaneously allowing enjoyment of the water.

Keep cool...

Drewski  

[txwillie]

I sanitize with Bromine (Spa Frog) and use MPS to shock. MPS directions say to use 2 oz for my gallonage. 24 hrs later my test strips indicate bromine levels well over 10 PPM. Is this normal?  Does the MPS cause bad bromine readings on the test strips? Shocked yesterday and used only 1.5 oz MPS and still the bromine reads way high 18 hrs later. Also, seems like MPS lowers the PH and TA. Any others notice this?

txwillie

[txwillie]

another thing about my last post and the PH/TA levels. My last house had an in ground pool. My pool supply guy told me that if the chlorine levels were really high (after a major shocking) that the chlorine actually bleached out the test strips and the PH and TA would look low because of that. Could high Bromine do the same?

txwillie

[HotTubMan]

This is a subject about which I am still cloudy after a number of years as a spa owner. Why do we need to SHOCK at all? There must be someone who can provide a reasonable explanation. I'm all eyes.

I thought I shoud elaborate on Drewski's comments.

Shocking does what Drewski said, but it also elinates chloramines and bromamines in the water. As chlorine and bromine "neutralize" organics, the snitizer also attaches itself to these organics. The byproduct is the aforementioned **amines. The cl/bromamines are more irritating to the nose, skin and eyes than cl/br on there own. Shocking (oxidizing) allows these byproducts to leave the tub in the form of a nitrogen gas. This why you need to leave the cover off, to allow these gases to escape. Shocking is done by super chlorinating or with another oxidizer like MPS.

Shocking is a term that seems to be mis-used alot on this forum. I have seen it used to describe sanitizing and oxidizing. Some products like dichlor can be used both to sanitize and oxidize, it just depends on the dosage rate.

Hope this helps;

HotTubMan

[cparlf]

Shocking is a term that seems to be mis-used alot on this forum. I have seen it used to describe sanitizing and oxidizing. Some products like dichlor can be used both to sanitize and oxidize, it just depends on the dosage rate.

Hope this helps;

HotTubMan

Thanks HotTubMan.  From your post, it seems I still need to "shock" periodically.  How do I shock vs "toss in a small amount of dichlor after every second or third use?  What ppm of dichlor gives me an official shock to the tub?  

[HotTubMan]

Thanks HotTubMan.  From your post, it seems I still need to "shock" periodically.  How do I shock vs "toss in a small amount of dichlor after every second or third use?  What ppm of dichlor gives me an official shock to the tub?  

10-15 PPM of dichlor. Different if you are using MPS. Offer us your tubs displacement and you will get many posters offering their dichlor/mps mixtures for effective oxidizing.

HotTubMan

[steve771]

Jumping in here for a suggestion.     Newbie to this chemical stuff.  I have a 400 gal. tub.  I have been using 1 tsp. of dichlor after each use (UV ozonator in use).  Everything seems to be ok.  What would the recommended "shock" of weekly dichlor be?  Thanks!