Air blowers

[Jakeman]

Does the air blowers really affect water temp? I was told by Hotspring that when you use the air blower option on the Sundance, it will drop the water temp down.  Is this true or does he just say this because they don't have a blower?

[poolboy34]

If it were true, why would Watkins (company that makes Hot Spring) put an Air Blower on their caldera Line of spas??

[empolgation]

Isn't the Caldera line Watkins' "cool water" tubs?

[Spa_Tech]

Does the air blowers really affect water temp? I was told by Hotspring that when you use the air blower option on the Sundance, it will drop the water temp down.  Is this true or does he just say this because they don't have a blower?

The answer is yes and no.



At some point after a blower is activated, the ambient air will be drawn into the spa water. If the air is cooler than the spa water the water will begin to lose temperature- If it is a 120v spa the temperature will drop dramatically in a short period of time--Because when youre operating the high speed jets, the heater will not activate (Which is one very good reason you wont find a blower installed on a HotSpring.).

If the spa is 240v, the heater will be activated as soon as the thermostat or temp sensor detects the cooler water temp.

In either event- the addition of a blower can make a spa consume more electricity while only giving the appearance of a lot of water action. In my opinon, its not a feature I would pursue.

[salesdvl]

I couldn't have said it better myself Spa (space) Tech

[poolboy34]

excelent points Spa tech, but in the case of the "cool water" caldera's, a circ pump is used to run the heater, so you can run BOTH the jet pumps, the blower, and the heater at the same time.  What this actually means in the grand scheme of things??? i haven't a clue, personally I don't see any purpose behind the air blowers other then they produce quite a turbulant effect to show customers in the showroom.

[salesdvl]

I had a customer one time that told me a story.  She said that she was visiting her friend and all the kids were in the hot tub.  Suddenly they couldn't see any of the kids and she ran out to the spa and reached in and grab her son off the bottom.  When he came up he screamed "What are you doing, Mom."

Turns out the kids were breathing the air coming out of the blower holes at the bottom to see who could stay down the longest.

I guess the blower does have a good purpose.  

[Chris_H]

The air blower will in general make the temperature go down, however if you are running the Sundance on a 60 Amp circuit you will not see a noticeable difference in the temperature because all of the electric pumps/motors/heaters can be used at one time.  Also, the air blower in the Sundance is a heated air blower.

[Chas]

Blowers do cool the water. They move a huge volume of air through the water, and you can't heat that air hot enough to keep it from cooling the water to some degree or other. There are those who claim that by drawing air throught the empty cabinets of their tubs they can keep the blower from cooling the tub - but that warm air in the cab will be depleated in a matter of seconds and then outside air will rush in to replace it.

Also, there are certain physical laws at work here: one states that when you release the pressure on a contained gas, it cools. Ever notice ice/frost forming on an LP tank as your berbeque reduces the pressure within? The cooling effect can be quite pronounced. This same thing happens as the air bubbles rise in the water. So even if they leave the air injection system slightly warm they will cool as they rise and expand. There are no systems which can get the air hot enough to cancel this - even if there were, the hot air would melt the plastic plumbing, or burn people who happen to be sitting on it. Or at the very least it would cost a fortune to run. Cal spa tried it for years - I made lots of money replacing the melted plastic around the 'hot air blowers,' and every one of those customers admitted that the system still cooled the water.

Caldera had blowers in them before Watkins purchased them. Some people like the blowers, but most do not use them for very long after the tub arrives in their home. I know there are several people on this board who do enjoy using the blowers on their tubs. That's the exception to the rule.

I have been called out to the home of people who's blowers have gotten flooded or had some related problem. Once I told them I could remove the blower and that would get their tub running again for $200 less than repairing the blower, they usually choose to go ahead without the blower. Common response is, "We never use the blower anyway." Or, "I only use it to mix chems, but I can do that with the jets."

[ebirrane]

My friend owns a cameo and they use the blower sometimes.

When the blower *first* turns on there is a blast of cold, similar to when you first turn on the jets and cooler water has to be flushed out of the system.  After that we really don't notice anything.  He runs a 50 am installation and there are no problems with the tub getting too cold.  It's possible that any temperature drop won't be noticed during the 1-3 hours people are in the tub?

The bubbler doesn't help with the bead scents, but I would imagine that the liquid scents you pour in the tub would be more potent with water agitation.  

Not sure what the operating parameters of a "heated" blower are. I know a hair dryer pulls plenty of juice, and all it does is heat air and blow it.

-Ed

[Chas]

You simply can't run a blower and not cool the water. Simple laws of physics. But - If the spa has a large enough heater to keep up with it, you may not notice it, unless the noise from your electric meter bothers you...

If the tub is at a high temp, you have time before the water gets to a cool enough temp to be uncomfortable. The strange thing is, and I think any of us who own tubs will attest to this: if the water is still, it feels cooler. When the water is in motion, it feels warmer. This was the reason behind the "whirlpool jet" on some older tubs. Well, the blower tends to make the water move - hence it doesn't feel like it is cooling as fast. But watch a thermometer, and you'll see the temp changing.

Also, newer tubs are designed well enough, insulated well enough and have good enough heaters that some actually might be able to cool very little, very slowly. One of the design features on those tubs is a smaller blower.

I wanted to add that the people who enjoy their blowers do in fact enjoy them. You couldn't talk some of them out of it if you tried, and I usually try. Even when I was selling brands which had the blower as an option, I just didn't think it was worth any extra money. There were people who ordered them anyway.

Some people like to be able to cool the water quickly so grandpa can get in or so they can enjoy the hotter temps and then cool the tub for the kids. Fine - I usually set the temp where I want it and keep it there, but we'll see what happens when my folks move in with us in a couple of months...

I'm not disparaging you fine blower-embracing folks. Much. No wait - really, I do hear from people who are shopping for a second spa who really liked the blower system on their previous tub.

I try to get them in for a wet test, and I set a couple of large jets near the bottom of the tub to hit each other near the center of the tub. It produces a small 'volcano' action which tends to give you a massage action very much like a blower: gentle, overall, but without direct jetting action. Also without the high-volume air and it's attendant cooling effects.

When I remind them of the noise of many blower systems, and the fact that they tend to raise a cloud of sanitizer right to eye level - and tell them that they will no longer be oxidizing their sanitizer out of the water - suddenly they remember the bad that went along with the good, and they don't seem to want one any more...

I know that most blowers on newer tubs are not as noisy as the older systems. But the bubbles hitting the surface still create quite a bit of noise all by themselves.

[HotTubMan]

OH! I thought this thread was about us spa sales guys!

Oh well

[Chas]

OH! I thought this thread was about us spa sales guys!

Oh well

No - we CAN produce enough hot air to not cool the water!  

[Russ]

Not that anyone would want a salesman blowing bubbles in their tub.  

[Chris_H]

Chas,

Everything you say is correct, but I have to take your comments with a grain of salt because the product you sell doesn’t have it.  Also, I don’t think the air blower should be a deciding factor in the purchase, but what Hotspring tells its sales people is somewhat misleading.  I’m actually more on your side on this debate, but I want to be the devils advocate.

It will cool the water, but not as drastically as you make it out to be.  I can say with great certainty if you went to the local Sundance dealer and turned on the air blower and the two therapy pumps, you would not see the temperature go down in a half hour of use. This is going be the case because of the insulation and heater that Sundance is using.

Let’s look at this from a different perspective.  
If you induce air using the therapy pumps in both the Hotspring and Sundance the spa can’t have air and not reduce the temperature in the spa.  Just by inducing air you will reduce the temperature.  Please don’t even respond, well, Hotspring uses a pump shroud.  It minimizes the reduction in temperature.  The shroud does not stop the spa from cooling.

Sundance offers an air blower, a feature that Hotspring does not offer.  It is air and you can’t have air and not reduce the temperature of the spa.  The air blower will lower the temperature of the spa.

How come Hotspring is able to keep the temperature of the spa the same when inducing the air?  Mainly because of the heater and insulation.  This is also the case in the Sundance even if it has an extra pump that just emits air.

About raising the sanitizer to eye level, most consumers use MPS before each use.  MPS has no noticeable affects to the consumer during use.  Your reference is a sales scare tactic.  It is true, yes, but does it really have an affect on the user, absolutely not.    

Also, in regards to the removal of the air blower or the flooding of the lines, the manufacturers that use an air blower have an automatic setting that the air blower will turn on every 12 hours to un-flood the lines.

Chris