Selling into Europe? Who has experience?

[jbeernink]

Hello,.

I am very new to this forum. I live in Holland (europe) and planning to purchase a Hotspring Spa his week. When I see prices on this forum, I think it makes sence to import my Souvereign or Envoy directly from the Unitd States. Currently I am paying 14.000 Euro (16k USD) for my Soeverein and 18.000 Euro for a Envoy (21.6).

Who is willing to help us, share experiences or sell me my Spa including freight, duties and taxes. Are there other countries in Europe more price sensitive?

Another question which just interests me is: who is the worldwide marketleader in Spa's? Is it hotspring?

Thanks for your help and advice,

Jos Beernink

[Chas]

I wish I could help - and so do any other HS dealers reading this. But the factory will not authorize the sale of an 'export' spec tub to a domestic dealer. If you would like to buy a US spec tub (60 cycle 220volt 50 amp) you could PM me. But you'll have to do the conversion yourself. You might get some help with the conversion from a local spa guy....

[Jordy]

Hello Jabeernink,
In the last 12 months, Jacuzzi Premium Spas was the worldwide leader in spa sales. Good luck in your quest. If I were you, I would try to find a good European Dealer as opposed to shipping it yourself.

[Chas]

Hello Jabeernink,
In the last 12 months, Jacuzzi Premium Spas was the worldwide leader in spa sales.

I would love to see some numbers on that.... If you are counting JP and Sundance, you might get close, but if you do combine those two lines then it would be fair to combine HotSpring, Tiger River, Solana, Hot Spot and Caldera. I know JP and Sundance do sell a lot of tubs, but HotSpring is the recognized leader, and has been for many years.

[Jordy]

Hi Chas,
Yes, I agree with you. I am simply parroting the information my territory rep. passed on to me about 3 weeks ago.
-Darren J.

[jbeernink]

I need a 220V spa overhere. How can I figure out what the ampere number and cycle number locally looks like.

I even don't know what he cycle numbers stands for.

I am not a dealer. Just an simple end user questioning why the differences in price are so huge.    So, dear dealers I am not asking to ship to a local dealer, but directly to me as an end-user.

Other Question how often do models change. When does HS normally introduce a new line up (or 2005 models)?

[HotTubMan]

I need a 220V spa overhere. How can I figure out what the ampere number and cycle number locally looks like.

I even don't know what he cycle numbers stands for.

I am not a dealer. Just an simple end user questioning why the differences in price are so huge.    So, dear dealers I am not asking to ship to a local dealer, but directly to me as an end-user.

Other Question how often do models change. When does HS normally introduce a new line up (or 2005 models)?

Chas will corrct me if I am wrong, but I do beleive 60 cycle could also be identified as 60 Hz, you need 50 in Europe. Electrical appliances are designed differently in North America compared to Europe. This would require a new/different spa "management system" to be installed. If you were to buy a NorthAmerican made spa and make that alteration where you live, you will void your warranty. You have to decide if the potential savings of buying a tub from one of us instead of buying locally is worth having NO WARRANTY.

I did sell a Beachcomber into Russia. It caused major political turbulence within the dealer network and we were told "never again" by Beachcomber.

You will most liklely have to buy from a smaller manufacturer to find one that will sell an "export" to a North American dealer to in turn sell to you.

HotTubMan

[Chas]

Yup.

"Hz" is an abbreviation for "Hertz." So look for Cycles, Hz or Hertz.

If you are not a person who does this type of electical/mechanical work themselves, I would certainly recommend finding a repair person or electrician who is capable and willing to help before you pursue this.

[Chas]

Hi Chas,
Yes, I agree with you. I am simply parroting the information my territory rep. passed on to me about 3 weeks ago.
-Darren J.

Well one thing is sure, and may never change: 'Jacuzzi' is the recognized word for hot tub to 99% of the world!! That was our joy back when we sold 'em.

[fritz]

hi jbeernink
I recomend to find a dealer close to you. If HS is to expensive, look at other fine hottubs like Beachcomber or Sundance and D1. Don't hesitate to ask for special prices and you will get good service from a local dealer.
If you can fix a pool yourself and do all the electricity on your own and only then, a direct import will prove to be
cheaper, in the long run. 30% to 50% hihger prices are usual here. Adjustements in the beginning and repairs in
ten years are going to cost al lot.

Go wet test different pools! best wishes fritz.

[ebirrane]

Chas will corrct me if I am wrong, but I do beleive 60 cycle could also be identified as 60 Hz, you need 50 in Europe.

To go off-topic and dork-out for a moment, this is where the PAL/NTSC difference comes in.  NSTC is 60 fields per second (almost) corresponding with out 60Hz (almost) power. This yields 29.9999 frames per second.

PAL is 50 fields per second, or 25 frames per second.  Which makes PAL *much* nicer for pulling down to film, which is 24 frames per second.  To go from PAL to film you only drop 1 frame each second (or 2 fields from different seconds).  To go from 30 frames NTSC to film you need to do some ugly 2/3 step-down and lose 6 frames each second.

50Hz... good for independent filmographers. Bad for people wanting US hot tubs.

-Ed

[Chas]

To go off-topic and dork-out for a moment, this is where the PAL/NTSC difference comes in.  NSTC is 60 fields per second (almost) corresponding with out 60Hz (almost) power. This yields 29.9999 frames per second.


PAL is 50 fields per second, or 25 frames per second.  Which makes PAL *much* nicer for pulling down to film, which is 24 frames per second.  To go from PAL to film you only drop 1 frame each second (or 2 fields from different seconds).  To go from 30 frames NTSC to film you need to do some ugly 2/3 step-down and lose 6 frames each second.

50Hz... good for independent filmographers. Bad for people wanting US hot tubs.

-Ed

You know Ed, I never would have thought of that.....  


More electrifying trivia: I was told by an engineer at Watkins that 50 cycle power has less 'bite' when you accidently grab the hot wires. I asked him if he ever though about getting a new hobby. But then my wife and I went to Europe, and I zapped myself twice trying to plug the stupid water pot in.  

[Brewman]

To add even more to this insanity, a pal of mine, who is an electronics tech person, claims that 120 volts is actually more dangerous than 220.  Apparently, at 220 volts you are more likely to get tossed away from the live wires, where at 120 you are likely to stay stuck to the wiring, with current pouring thru you.
Brewman

[r100rs]

Personnally, I can't tell the difference between 50hz and 60hz nor 120v vs 220v.  When I get the sheets zapped out of me it just plain hurts.

In the rumour mill, I've been told that when your zapped by 50hz your eyes roll up and down, for 60hz they move left and right.      I have never tried to prove this by looking in a mirror while shocking myself!

From what I can remember of electronics, a heater circuit designed for 220v 60hz will draw more power when operated on 220v 50hz. Thus you will blow the fuse.  If for some reason it ran, the internal timing circuits more than likely would be all off.  So any programed features would not occur at the same time.

The same also applies to 110v items

If one is dumb enough to plug a 110v unit  into a 220v outlet or vice versa, you deserve what you get.  Lots of arcing and sparking, plus smoke!

You can run a 50hz appliance on 60hz, the heater just won't heat up as hot.  I know because I had a european washer for 15 years.  Used it for 6 years in Germany and brought it back to the states and it ran great for the next 9 years.  Getting parts was the only reason I had to get rid of it.

As far as 110v having a bigger bite than 220v.  

P=IxV   or   Power = Current times Voltage

Thus you need twice as many amps at 110 then you do at 220.  This doesn't mean you will get zapped by all the current that that circuit can produce.

Just remember you can be killed by less than 1 microamp of current if other conditions are right.

Also for jbeernink

Remember, you are paying at least a 14% VAT (Value Added Tax) on your goods and services that we don't have.  I can't remember what other changes occured when the EU took over.

My best memory of Holland - besides the Red Light District in Amsterdam   or the liberal drug policies   !!!!

We were crossing the border back into Germany real late one night and the Dutch guard asked us if we had any drugs.  

We said, "NO!"  

He asked, "Why Not?"

Hope this helps

r100rs

[stuart]

Personnally, I can't tell the difference between 50hz and 60hz nor 120v vs 220v.  When I get the sheets zapped out of me it just plain hurts.

In the rumour mill, I've been told that when your zapped by 50hz your eyes roll up and down, for 60hz they move left and right.      I have never tried to prove this by looking in a mirror while shocking myself!

From what I can remember of electronics, a heater circuit designed for 220v 60hz will draw more power when operated on 220v 50hz. Thus you will blow the fuse.  If for some reason it ran, the internal timing circuits more than likely would be all off.  So any programed features would not occur at the same time.

The same also applies to 110v items

If one is dumb enough to plug a 110v unit  into a 220v outlet or vice versa, you deserve what you get.  Lots of arcing and sparking, plus smoke!

You can run a 50hz appliance on 60hz, the heater just won't heat up as hot.  I know because I had a european washer for 15 years.  Used it for 6 years in Germany and brought it back to the states and it ran great for the next 9 years.  Getting parts was the only reason I had to get rid of it.

As far as 110v having a bigger bite than 220v.  

P=IxV   or   Power = Current times Voltage

Thus you need twice as many amps at 110 then you do at 220.  This doesn't mean you will get zapped by all the current that that circuit can produce.

Just remember you can be killed by less than 1 microamp of current if other conditions are right.


r100rs

Break Ohms Law, get the electric chair......