Bullfrog SWCG Conversion

[bacontrees]

Long-time lurker on the forums, and I recently got my R7L w/ EOS (ozone)/CP from a great and knowledgeable local dealer who is active here as well.

I know I could easily get pretty much any SWCG unit and drape it over, but I'm an engineer and perfectionist, and that's not my style.

I'd like to get something hardwired/hidden/in-line -- looking at ControlOMatic (not sure yet on SmarterSpa vs ChlorMaker -- sensor vs timer operation), and it should be easy enough to install one right after the CP and have chlorine generation in the perfect place.

Here's my conundrum:

With an in-line system there must not be chlorine generation in non-moving water.  Hydrogen is a byproduct of SWCG and of course is dangerous in high concentrations, and chlorine itself as I understand it is pretty corrosive and generally bad in higher concentrations as well.  So I need to make sure the SWCG power is only on when there's flowing water (CP on).  I can do this easily enough with a PP1 AMP splitter or similar, but what I'd really love to do is have CP run 24/7, and have ozone only run during filter cycles.  I know I can set a 24/7 filtration cycle, which will run both CP and ozone, but running ozone 24/7 is excessive, it'll wear out the CD ozone unit much more quickly, and it'll constantly eat all my FC, making it nearly impossible to maintain a residual without running the SWCG 24/7 (prematurely wearing out that unit out too).

If I could access the field programming options on the Gecko as outlined in the Start-up guide (http://www.geckodocs.com/yseries) I could have a perfect, clean setup, but BF seems to have this locked out, and BF tech support either has no idea what I'm talking about or just won't tell me

My current best ideas are:

1. Use PP1 or similar to tie SWCG power to CP power.  I don't really like this, as CP comes on at random times, not just filtration cycles.  With SWCG only being on with CP I will only be able to monitor/adjust its settings when the CP is on, which is inconvenient.

• If I go with a timer-based SWCG I'm going to get chlorine levels all over the place.  Every time CP turns on SWCG will start a production cycle, which will be every filtration cycle, plus every 30 minutes for its heat check, plus whenever it's heating/cooling.  Wildly unpredictable chlorine generation.
• If I go with a sensor-based SWCG I'm going to have the opposite.  CP/SWCG turns on, and when chlorine is present SWCG will do nothing except monitor.  After awhile chlorine level drops below threshold, SWCG starts producing.  CP will turn off whenever it wants, and subsequently SWCG will turn off, very likely before it can complete its chlorine generation.

2. Use PP1 or similar to tie SWCG to ozone power.  This is a better idea but still not perfect, as I have the same problem of only being able to monitor/adjust its settings when ozone is on, and I'd have the same problem with a sensor-based SWCG.  It'll work with a timer-based SWCG, but not sensor-based, and it's just not perfect.


3. Find a constant power source in the spa pack and tie both CP and SWCG to this.  This might be a viable option as well, but I did not see the constant 120v AMP output referenced in the BF/Gecko manual when I was in there for initial hookup.  But I'll give it another look.  This would be the only scenario I could use a sensor-based SWCG, which is attractive to me, because I could theoretically keep a very very low chlorine residual since I have powerful/effective ozone with EOS combined with mineral sanitizer.

Sorry for the long read, if you read it.  I would be forever grateful if you would give me any input.

[Tman122]

Dichlor and bleach.

[bud16415]

To me part of the beauty of a non-inline independent chlorine gen unit like the saltron-mini or others that you just toss in and out of the tub is you can soak the anode in vinegar once a month over night and have a virtually new unit.

I have long planned on buying one and have a friend that has been using one for about 10 years replacing the anode only once. The problem I have is as mentioned above the dichlor / bleach method is so simple I never get around to buying one. I have for the last couple years been adding the same salt as if I had a unit just for the salt feel.   

[BullFrogSpasMN]

sent you a DM back Bacon :-)

[bacontrees]

Dichlor and bleach.

Not helpful, thanks.

[bacontrees]

To me part of the beauty of a non-inline independent chlorine gen unit like the saltron-mini or others that you just toss in and out of the tub is you can soak the anode in vinegar once a month over night and have a virtually new unit.

I have long planned on buying one and have a friend that has been using one for about 10 years replacing the anode only once. The problem I have is as mentioned above the dichlor / bleach method is so simple I never get around to buying one. I have for the last couple years been adding the same salt as if I had a unit just for the salt feel.

Appreciate the input.  I grabbed a big bag of pool salt the other day, and I'm thinking of adding ~500PPM just for the feel even though I probably won't have the SWCG for a while.

[bacontrees]

sent you a DM back Bacon :-)

I appreciate that.  Reading now...

[Hottubguy]

To me part of the beauty of a non-inline independent chlorine gen unit like the saltron-mini or others that you just toss in and out of the tub is you can soak the anode in vinegar once a month over night and have a virtually new unit.

I have long planned on buying one and have a friend that has been using one for about 10 years replacing the anode only once. The problem I have is as mentioned above the dichlor / bleach method is so simple I never get around to buying one. I have for the last couple years been adding the same salt as if I had a unit just for the salt feel.

Appreciate the input.  I grabbed a big bag of pool salt the other day, and I'm thinking of adding ~500PPM just for the feel even though I probably won't have the SWCG for a while.

Don't us swimming pool salt.  It's not refined enough for hot tub use.  Does your tub have a circ pump on it?

[bacontrees]

To me part of the beauty of a non-inline independent chlorine gen unit like the saltron-mini or others that you just toss in and out of the tub is you can soak the anode in vinegar once a month over night and have a virtually new unit.

I have long planned on buying one and have a friend that has been using one for about 10 years replacing the anode only once. The problem I have is as mentioned above the dichlor / bleach method is so simple I never get around to buying one. I have for the last couple years been adding the same salt as if I had a unit just for the salt feel.

Appreciate the input.  I grabbed a big bag of pool salt the other day, and I'm thinking of adding ~500PPM just for the feel even though I probably won't have the SWCG for a while.

Don't us swimming pool salt.  It's not refined enough for hot tub use.  Does your tub have a circ pump on it?

What do you recommend instead?  FYI this is what I have ("recommended by manufacturers of salt water chlorinators", "Over 99% salt purity levels.", "Naturally free of additives."): https://www.diamondcrystalsalt.com/product/pool-salt

I do have a circ pump, but it's not made to be 24/7 (1/12HP, 35GPM), and it only runs during filter cycles (alongside extremely high output ozone) as stated in OP.  I haven't gone in with my multimeter yet to see if I can find/rewire to a constant 240VAC source, but I may very well go that route.  Still, I'm unsure if running a ~.75A pump all day every day is a wise decision energy-wise.  The manufacturer and most dealers recommend against it.

[Tman122]

Dichlor and bleach.

Not helpful, thanks.

Just trying to make it simple and easy for you, tubs are supposed to be simple and easy. Over complicating things never helps.

Using the dichlor and bleach sanitation method is the easiest out there. Your never soaking in chlorine (unlike a salt tub)

[swilly1000]

Dichlor and bleach.

Not helpful, thanks.

Just trying to make it simple and easy for you, tubs are supposed to be simple and easy. Over complicating things never helps.

Using the dichlor and bleach sanitation method is the easiest out there. Your never soaking in chlorine (unlike a salt tub)

That's funny.  OP is over complicating the whole thing.  Just reread the first post.  I lost interest before I was halfway through it.  And then disses your simple and effective solution.  Nice try bacon lol

[BullFrogSpasMN]

To me part of the beauty of a non-inline independent chlorine gen unit like the saltron-mini or others that you just toss in and out of the tub is you can soak the anode in vinegar once a month over night and have a virtually new unit.

I have long planned on buying one and have a friend that has been using one for about 10 years replacing the anode only once. The problem I have is as mentioned above the dichlor / bleach method is so simple I never get around to buying one. I have for the last couple years been adding the same salt as if I had a unit just for the salt feel.

Appreciate the input.  I grabbed a big bag of pool salt the other day, and I'm thinking of adding ~500PPM just for the feel even though I probably won't have the SWCG for a while.

Don't us swimming pool salt.  It's not refined enough for hot tub use.  Does your tub have a circ pump on it?

What do you recommend instead?  FYI this is what I have ("recommended by manufacturers of salt water chlorinators", "Over 99% salt purity levels.", "Naturally free of additives."): https://www.diamondcrystalsalt.com/product/pool-salt

I do have a circ pump, but it's not made to be 24/7 (1/12HP, 35GPM), and it only runs during filter cycles (alongside extremely high output ozone) as stated in OP.  I haven't gone in with my multimeter yet to see if I can find/rewire to a constant 240VAC source, but I may very well go that route.  Still, I'm unsure if running a ~.75A pump all day every day is a wise decision energy-wise.  The manufacturer and most dealers recommend against it.

That pool salt will work fine with a SWCG, don't buy those 'brand name' containers from the manufacturers, it's a rip-off, salt is salt as long as it's over 99% purity

[Hottubguy]

To me part of the beauty of a non-inline independent chlorine gen unit like the saltron-mini or others that you just toss in and out of the tub is you can soak the anode in vinegar once a month over night and have a virtually new unit.

I have long planned on buying one and have a friend that has been using one for about 10 years replacing the anode only once. The problem I have is as mentioned above the dichlor / bleach method is so simple I never get around to buying one. I have for the last couple years been adding the same salt as if I had a unit just for the salt feel.

Appreciate the input.  I grabbed a big bag of pool salt the other day, and I'm thinking of adding ~500PPM just for the feel even though I probably won't have the SWCG for a while.

Don't us swimming pool salt.  It's not refined enough for hot tub use.  Does your tub have a circ pump on it?

What do you recommend instead?  FYI this is what I have ("recommended by manufacturers of salt water chlorinators", "Over 99% salt purity levels.", "Naturally free of additives."): https://www.diamondcrystalsalt.com/product/pool-salt

I do have a circ pump, but it's not made to be 24/7 (1/12HP, 35GPM), and it only runs during filter cycles (alongside extremely high output ozone) as stated in OP.  I haven't gone in with my multimeter yet to see if I can find/rewire to a constant 240VAC source, but I may very well go that route.  Still, I'm unsure if running a ~.75A pump all day every day is a wise decision energy-wise.  The manufacturer and most dealers recommend against it.

That pool salt will work fine with a SWCG, don't buy those 'brand name' containers from the manufacturers, it's a rip-off, salt is salt as long as it's over 99% purity

Do you work with pools at all?  Big difference in purity from stuff made for hot tubs to stuff like aqua salt (that also claims 99% purity).  Most pool salt on East Coast comes from the same mine in West Virginia.  The way it's processed is different.  The Diamond Crystal stuff he is talking about  I believe coming from Cargill which should be better.  I don't have any experience using it.  Looks like Walmart carries it up here.    If the bag feels clumpy I wouldn't use it

[ratchett]

Wish I knew where I could sell a few pallets of high grade table-salt, mined in Italy.   This salt was intended to be sold under the McCormick brand of table salt, unfortunately the "supersacks" were damaged (bags ripped I think during unloading from the truck). 

So now my Dad has thousands of pounds of table-grade salt which cannot be sold as "Food-grade" because the bags are "contaminated".  But it's the purest salt you can buy from Italy.

Maybe I should contact some pool salt brands in the country, I'm sure someone would be interested in half a dozen supersacks of salt at discounted prices!

[bacontrees]

Dichlor and bleach.

Not helpful, thanks.

Just trying to make it simple and easy for you, tubs are supposed to be simple and easy. Over complicating things never helps.

Using the dichlor and bleach sanitation method is the easiest out there. Your never soaking in chlorine (unlike a salt tub)

I am currently using this method, and while it is absolutely effective, it's not going to be more "simple and easy" than a system where I rarely have to do a damn thing.  Yes, I'm spending a lot of time/effort planning right now, but that's just because I'm a perfectionist.

Plenty of folks have purchased and tossed in an inexpensive Saltron Mini and couldn't be happier.  15-minute install time.  At $230 that's the equivalent of 62 bottles of HDX 8.25 bleach.  Add $8 for a 40lb bag of salt that will last years, and the SWCG will pay for itself over time.  I'm not sure how long the Saltron cell lasts, but the Chlor-o-matic cell is rated for 7k-10k hours, which is more than enough time to pay for itself several times over, all while reducing the time I spend monitoring my tub's chemistry.

As for "never soaking in chlorine" I prefer to be soaking in a very small amount (.5-1ppm).  Hell, my drinking water just tested at 2ppm, and the EPA allows up to 4.  The Frog @ease system seems to be the best thing out there, maintaining a constant .5-1ppm chlorine, but it's $250/year in cartridges, and I'm not a big fan of disposables.  The SmarterSpa should allow me to accomplish nearly the same thing for much less.