How to Negotiate and Buy a Hot tub.

[spahappy]

Well I'm a Coleman owner and I love it.  I have the C480 Deluxe  (no lounge seat, 6 seater, 430 gallons) and have had it for 1 month now.  I had a very old CalSpa that rotted away from a leak and I am just so impressed with today's technology in spas.  My old spa had 4 jets and now I have 41.  I am sold on thermopane design and believe that Coleman (MAXX) is making a "bullet proof" spa.  The filtration system is amazing.  I open my cover and see nothing but crystal clear water with no debris laying on the bottom.  I do have one issue that I hope will be resolved soon though.  I was unable to wet test this spa and have noticed that the top jets in the 2 deluxe bucket seats with the neck collars do not exert much pressure. These jets are designed for the neck area and this is the one spot that I had hoped to get the necessary pressure.  They are only putting out about half the pressure as the jets directly below them.  I have inquired to MAXX directly and they say that this should not be happening.  They believe I might have a kink in one of my lines so i have placed a service call to my dealer to investigate.   Other than that, my only complaint is that I have some dry skin lately as I've been putting alot of time in my spa.  My energy bill is also doing much better now.  I'd say this spa probably cost me $15 dollars to run this last month. I do live in sunny and smoggy California though so don't have to fret too much about cold winters.  I have found out that my old CalSpa was costing me over $80 a month.  Of course it was very old.  Luckily, I only had to upgrade my 220 breakers from 40 amp to 50.  I can't believe what electricians charge to run 220.  Highway robbery.   So all you future buyers, do yourself a favor and check out the Coleman product also.  

[spahappy]

Congrats Rick!
   You have a great Spa! I agree with the powers that be at Coleman in that your neck jet pressure problem is a simple fix. I had a Coleman 1994 Horizon 411 spa. I just sold it for outright and purchased a 2004 Coleman 700 series. Technology is great and what a long way Coleman has come in 10 years, but I do miss my cooler!  
   It's great to see another happy Coleman Spa owner on this forum. I'm sure your dealer will take care of you as thay have a great warranty, and good factory dealer relationships.
                        happy tubbing!
                                       Spahappy!

[rick]

well I as then know spahappy, mine is only Coleman model this year with the cooler.  Wonder why it's the only one though.  
i had boasted about this feature here a couple of weeks ago and got reamed good.  (why don't you just fill the tub with Mike's hard lemonade....)  I don't know, maybe it  might taste better straight from my built in cooler!!!!  

[Lori]

Be sure and moisturize after tubbing, especially if you are going in a lot.  This will help the dry skin!!!

[wmccall]

Ok, add Coleman to the list of spas that aren't available within 75 miles of me!  For a town of a million people, I thought we had all the dealers.  Maybe I should open a store and sell Beachcomber, Coleman, and LA spas.  Naw, I'd rather open a  Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant.  I doubt if combining them would work,  You could be served wings in a spa. Nope, not a good idea.  

[ZzTop]

Ok, add Coleman to the list of spas that aren't available within 75 miles of me!  For a town of a million people, I thought we had all the dealers.  Maybe I should open a store and sell Beachcomber, Coleman, and LA spas.  Naw, I'd rather open a  Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant.  I doubt if combining them would work,  You could be served wings in a spa. Nope, not a good idea.  

how about water wings

[chaz]

I think you are on to something.  WIngs are usually messy and sitting in a hottub would ease cleanup.  Keeping the right amount of chlorination and such might prove to be a bit of a problem however.

I am sure with all the scientific minds here someone should be able to figure the right amount of mixture to equal out BBQ sauce (medium, hot and fire).

[ZzTop]

.  I am sold on thermopane design and believe that Coleman (MAXX) is making a "bullet proof" spa.  

The more I read I have come to believe that the thermopane system has some inherent problems.

Reading from posts of repair people they seem to point to the following problems:

1. that the plumbing is not fixed in ridged foam allowing the plumbing to move, vibrating over time and resulting in leaks.
 
2, The operation of the pumps and jets are much noisier owing to the lack of insulation making it more difficult to have a conversation when in operation.

3.  The thermal capabilities of air are not the equal to full foam resulting in higher costs of operation especially in cold climates.

I should also point out to be fair that if you do have a leak in a full foamed tub it is much more difficult to repair, however from all the posts I have read this does not seem to be a problem that happens often.  This is not the case for tubs that are not full foamed.

It pays to do your home work!

[ZzTop]

How to protect your Hot Tub Cover.

Use 303 Protectant on the top and underside of the cover too.

It helps keep mildew from growing,
 
Also use a spa blanket which keeps the moisture from getting into the cover as well as helps to insulate the tub.
 
If you are using a cover lifter, you can velcro it on the opening side and it will fold over with the cover when you open it which makes it easy to handle.

Another idea for storing the spa blanket is to use two plastic potato chip bag closers attached to a wall and simply hang it out of the way when you use the hot tub.

You will find that the spa chemicals will eventually rot the spa blanket which is inexpensive and easy to replace instead of a new Hot Tub cover.

regards, Zz

[rick]

I claim to be no expert in spa design.  I have heard both sides of the "religious war" on full foam vs. thermopane and it is my humble opinion that you will see more and more companies changing from full foam to thermopane in the future.  The full foam advocates talk about how the thermopane pipes are more prone to leak and how they are noisier spas but I have not heard about leaks in thermopane design yet.  I have read many forums and no complaints yet from thermopane owners.  Also, my spa is very quiet with no rattling noise at all.  
Of course, it is a very new spa and only time will tell what holds for the future.  
The one thing I did like about Coleman's design is it's all metal frame.   No wood at all.  
Honestly, I believe full foam and wood framing is in it's last days (give it a couple of years) of doing business.  I also believe that full foam's primary design and function is to bolster a cheaply made shell.  Too many companies spend too much on marketing and not enough on construction and the previously ignorant spa buying public are now onto this mismanagement of money.  Hotsprings, among others are overpriced for their construction value.  You're paying for all that wonderful Watkins advertising.  


There I started the war all over again,   let me have it ZZ.  

[Mendocino101]

Hello...
It is just my thoughts about full foam vs thermo design...The biggest problem I have with it is with the manufactures who do not commit to one or the other but offer both....because in their research they SHOULD know which one works best with there design and to offer both just to please a customer I actually think is a dis service....as you can not do either one properly without changing the design....I do think in most cases full foam is the way to go...it is no doubt quieter and does support the plumbing I do not believe that it is used to make up for weaker shell designs...as its strength would not be such that it could off set the weak design...but hey...I might be wrong...just my thoughts about it.....

[needaspa]

Isn't the topic 'how to negotiate and buy a hot tub?'

[ZzTop]

I claim to be no expert in spa design.  I have heard both sides of the "religious war" on full foam vs. thermopane and it is my humble opinion that you will see more and more companies changing from full foam to thermopane in the future.  The full foam advocates talk about how the thermopane pipes are more prone to leak and how they are noisier spas but I have not heard about leaks in thermopane design yet.  I have read many forums and no complaints yet from thermopane owners.  Also, my spa is very quiet with no rattling noise at all.  
Of course, it is a very new spa and only time will tell what holds for the future.  
The one thing I did like about Coleman's design is it's all metal frame.   No wood at all.  
Honestly, I believe full foam and wood framing is in it's last days (give it a couple of years) of doing business.  I also believe that full foam's primary design and function is to bolster a cheaply made shell.  Too many companies spend too much on marketing and not enough on construction and the previously ignorant spa buying public are now onto this mismanagement of money.  Hotsprings, among others are overpriced for their construction value.  You're paying for all that wonderful Watkins advertising.  


There I started the war all over again,   let me have it ZZ.  

I of course respect your opinion.  
I base my thoughts on the subject from posts I have come across by people in the industry.
Problems do not seem to develop until after the warranty period 3 - 5 years.
Have a look at http://www.poolsearch.org/forum/read.php?f=8&i=12396&t=12396

The bottom line will be "Time will tell".

[ZzTop]

Ozone has been successfully used in municipal water purification systems for many years.  It is just beginning to be used in dentistry.  Painless, drillless tooth repair.

Ozone use in hot tubs seems to be offered by most major hot tub manuafactures.
There is lots of controversy as to its effectiveness.  It offers reduced use of other sanitizers however some sanitizer is still required.  Ozinator UV bulbs have to be replaced every two years and Corona Discharge type units require chip replacement every year, which of course are an added expense.

Here are some links on the subject:

http://www.cee.vt.edu/program_areas/environmental/teach/wtprimer/ozone/ozone.html

http://www.gewater.com/library/tp/844_Ozonation_.jsp

http://www.rhtubs.com/o3faq.htm

http://www.poolandspa.com/page84.htm

http://www.httg.com/faqs_ozone.htm

http://www.hotspring.com/Built/water_care.html

http://www.poolcenter.com/ozone_eclipse_poolstor.htm

http://www.hottubessentials.ca/spa_ozozator_water_purifier_corona.asp

regards Zz

[ZzTop]

I am amazed how many people get caught up on the number of jets, number of pumps issue when buying a hot tub.

The more complicated the plumbing design the more potential for leaks and pump failures down the road.

This will no doubt effect the total cost of ownership over the expected life of the spa which is estimated to be in the ten year plus range.

The most often replaced components on a hot tub are:

The Cover:  Some do not last more than three years, and average five.  You can improve your odds by using a spa blanket and treating the cover with 303 protectant on both sides. Replacement costs $400 - $600.00

Heater replacement  at a cost after warranty of $100 - $250.00

Pumps, the most usual problem is seal failure.  Costs $200 - $800.00 each

Other Problems:

Pillows tend to rot and look unattractive from the chemicals in the water.  These pillows are very expensive to replace approx cost of $25.00 - $50.00 each

Cracks in the Spa shell.  Not all shells are created equal.
Some are very thin and over time will crack (around steps and on the top edge) or show micro crazing.

Wood skirting requires maintenance to keep it sealed.
Some makes have very thin skirts which do not support cover lifters well.  The new plastic wood materials stand up better with virtually no maintenance.

Rodent and Insect problems
Rodents love the heat provided in the motor compartments of hot tubs.  It is a good idea to check for problems.  Several sheets of Bounce fabric softner will help to repel, rodents and spiders.