Flo error, Sundance Maxxus 2001, have replaced circ motor and flo switch

[Mrs Solomon]

Hi everyone.  I am hoping I can get some help as I am about to go out of my mind.  I have one big problem and a smaller problem that has come from working on the big one.

I have a Sundance Maxxus, 2001, which has always been indoors, and I got a flashing flo error and the hot tub would not heat.  I had not had the benefit of this forum at the time and decided the issue was the circulation motor.  The previous circ motor would get very hot and make a whining noise with little water being pushed out the hole where the hot water enters the tub (sorry, I don't know the terminology).  The install went fine, the motor works, but still got a flashing flo error message and no heat. 

I tried running the tub without the filter in, just to make sure that the issue was not with a bad filter, but the flashing flo message was persistently there.

Reading more, including previous posts here, the flo switch seems to be the issue.  I ordered a new flo switch.  Just to give as much detail as possible, this switch did not seem to require any drilling for the bottom tube connection and so I did not do any.  I installed it, but still the same error (and still, of course, no heating).  And this is still without the filter installed.  When I look at the flow switch while the circulator is running, I can see water moving through the t-section, I can see the paddle moving, but it is not getting close to the stick.  It is, maybe, a 1/4 of a inch or so away from the stick.  That makes it seem as though there is not enough flow/strength to push it against the paddle and close the switch. 

Could there be something blocking the water flow, and if so, is it something I can fix myself?  Where should I look?  I read in a previous post about the potential presence of a nylon sock filter that could have gotten sucked into one of the therapy jets.  Is that a possibility for me?  How would I look for it/ remove it?  I have also read that aiming a hose into the hole the hot water comes out of could help with air bubbles.  Should I try that?

The small problem, however, is that I, before I sought the wisdom of this forum, decided to try and see if the flo error could be gotten rid of in a roundabout way, just to see if that helped to narrow down the possible problems.  I removed the two wires of the new flo switch from the sensor and put the two wires of the old flo switch in their place.  My idea was to turn the power back on and manually close the old flo switch just to see if the error would go away or change.  When I did this, before I got a chance to try to manually push the paddle against the stick, the fuse tripped.  I tried again, and again it tripped.  So, I thought, that is not going to work, and removed the old flow switch wires and tried to reinsert the new ones.  This is the problem - I can no longer raise the wire tines on the end of the wires, and therefore, the wires are not properly seated into the sensor.  I cannot see how to raise them at all so any help towards that end would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading this far!  Please, please, help me figure out what I have done wrong and how to right it.

[SerjicalStrike]

It takes some time and usually a fine blade to get that tine up. 

When you replaced the flow switch, did you replace the whole switch, or did you unscrew the old one and screw in the new one?

A 2001 Sundance should have the circulation pump that pulls off the 2 speed pump.  If you turn on the 2 speed pump, does that push enough water through the flow switch?

How long has the water been in the spa?

[Mrs Solomon]

Hi - thanks for the reply!

I replaced the entire flow switch.  I only unscrewed the old one just to see how it worked.  Before the breaker tripping, I was able to turn on the two speed pump, but the paddle did not hit the stick in the flow switch.  There are a few bubbles in the switch, on the left side, but I could clearly see water moving through it and the paddle being moved - just not enough to get it close to the paddle.

[SerjicalStrike]

Is there any water coming out of the heat return when the circulation pump is supposed to be running? 

Were the plastic plugs on the inlet/outlet of the circulation pump removed prior to installation? 

[Mrs Solomon]

The plastic plugs were removed before the circ pump was installed.  Your question made me second guess myself, so I just checked and I still have both plugs sitting on the bench near the tub.

There was also water coming out of the heat return when the circulation pump was running.  I cannot tell that the amount of water that comes out increases drastically, however, when the second pump was turned on.

I filled the tub last Thursday, after having replaced the circ pump.  I then drained it to replace the flow switch on Saturday as the clamps I have were not doing a good job of blocking the water on either side of the flow switch.  The water has now been in there since then.

[SerjicalStrike]

Does water come out of the jets when the 2 speed pump kicks on?

[Mrs Solomon]

It did, yes.  There are three options on this model for the jets.  The first pump, which has low and high speed, and then a second and a third.  When I was able to get the tub running without tripping the fuse (working on those darned tines now!), all three would work. 

When I first ran it, and I believe this was before I replaced the flow switch, the tub would shut off after I put the first pump into high mode.  That has not occurred since, however.

[SerjicalStrike]

The first pump, if pushing water through the jets, should be pushing water through the flow switch as well.  Sundance didn't separate the two lines until 2002, when they went to a 2 piece filter.  I assume, with a 2001, your spa has the filter that goes over a pipe and then slides under a hook. 

If it is not pushing water through the flow switch, there may be a kink in the line or the heater may be clogged. I have seen that happen if the water was in the spa for a long time, as the cyanuric acid builds up then crystallizes. 

Also, just verify that the switch is in correctly.  The water should come out of the heater and then the flow switch should have the arrow going from left to right.  Inside the switch, the tab should be on the left and the post should be on the right.

[Mrs Solomon]

The flow switch arrow is pointing to the right -->, and the tab is to the left and the post on the right.  I could see water moving through it when the first pump was turned on.

For the filter, there is, on the right, a rigid tube that I fit the filter onto and as I tighten the ring I fit the left end of the filter into a circle on the left side of the filter basin.

The flo error initially appeared when I was running the spa after weeks of general on and off use.  I order the new circulator motor, drained the spa, but it was quite a while before I was able to get around to installing the motor and being where I am now.

If there is a kink in the line or if the heater is clogged, how would I check that, or fix it?  Is it something I can do on my own?

Thanks again for you help!

[Mrs Solomon]

I was re-reading your previous post about the two-part filter.  My filter has two parts, I think.  The outer one that is like waves of paper/fabric, and then another that slides into the first.  If that matters at all.

[SerjicalStrike]

Ok, you have the wrong filter.  You have a 2002+ Maxxus.  With the filter you have, when the 2 speed pump is on, it sucks water out of the circulation pump. 

Try taking the filter out and running it and see what happens.

If the circulation pump is air bound, you would need to put a hose up against the grate where the nipple of the filter normally goes and run some water through there. 

If that doesn't work, is there a way you can verify that the circulation pump is actually running?  Can you hear or feel it running?  Can you put a meter on it and make sure it is getting 240v? 

[Mrs Solomon]

First, you are correct - it is a 2002 model.  I am and feel like an idiot.  I purposely looked at the label on the interior and still got it wrong.  Sorry.

I can run it without the filter installed and the paddle does not contact the post in the flow switch.  With both low and high speed on pump one the paddle does not contact the post.  With all three pumps running the paddle does not reach the post.

I was able to measure the circ pump and it is getting 240v, or thereabouts.  I got 115 or so on one of the contacts/wires/posts, and 125 or so on the other.

I am guessing that the water coming out of the heating unit is being restricted somehow.  When I turn the tub on at the fuse box and the circ pump kicks on, a few bubbles come out of the heating port, but it is like they are dribbling out.  When I place my hand over it, I can feel water exiting, but the rate does not noticeably change when pump one is turned onto low, nor is there much increase when pump one is on high.

[SerjicalStrike]

Ok, we can forget about the 2 speed pump now. The main pumps you can turn on and off will have no effect on the circulation system.

When you check for voltage on the pump, you need to put one lead on the white wire, and one lead on the black wire, and test for ~240v. 

If you get ~240v, you can try shutting the spa off and running some water through the place where the nipple on the filter slips into, not the side with the pipe.   You can even wrap a small rag around it to make sure the water shoots through the circulation pump and out of the heat return.  Try that for a minute or two, then turn the power back on. 

If that still doesn't work, the next step is to get a length of hose and bypass the heater and see if that helps.  We can go over that in more detail once we get there.

[Mrs Solomon]

I checked the voltage and got ~245v or so.  Then I shut off the spa and ran water where you suggested.  There is a grid pattern in the plastic there, right?  I used a rag to block as much of it around the hose as I could, and then ran water.  I could see, I think, water coming out of the other side, the pipe side of the filter basin, at least at first.  Then, after two minutes, I turned the tub back on, but there was no noticeable difference with the flow switch.

Thanks again for your help.

[SerjicalStrike]

Ok, so the next step is to see if there is a kinked hose or something is blocked. 

In order to do that, you will need to shut the spa off and start bypassing things.  For this you will need a 3-5' length of 3/4" tubing and a plug that will fit inside of that size tubing.  You may also want to snag a #11 winterizing plug to make things easier.  Before you start each project, you can install the winterizing plug in the same spot you put the hose, the section with the grate. Just remember to remove it after everything is hooked back up and you are ready to turn the power on.

Remove the hose that is attached to the right side of the flow switch.  Plug that hose and install the length of tubing onto the flow switch.  Run the hose over the top of the shell back into the water.  Turn the spa back on and see if that fixes it. 

If it doesn't, put the hoses back to the original setup.  Next, we have to rule out the heater.     You will need to attach the length of 3/4" hose from the top of the circulation pump directly into the left side of the flow switch.  Before you turn the power back on, you will need to disconnect the heater from the circuit board so that it does not turn on.  There is a red and black wire that goes from the heater to the board.  Just unscrew the screws holding them to the board and secure them out of the way.

Hopefully one of those 2 methods work.  Let us know