Help with final decision

[Warkovision]

Great job Webman!! Now the waiting begins  But the payoff is sooo worth it!!

[sobe]

Beth,
       I will have to talk to pete because i was not offered the robe or the spa vacuum.

[Steve]

Hey Webber,
STOP. DO NOT SIGN THOSE PAPERS!!!! (God I hope I'm not too late)

Sundance over Beachcomber? I don't get it?
Seriously though, after being in this industry for many many years, construction, insulation and overall quality is superior to the others you mentioned. IMO of course (for those of you ready to tear a strip out of me )

I think you'll find the Beachcomber far higher quality with far better support from the company when you look further into it. Take your time and give yourself another chance at purchasing this spa. It's worth doing so.

The deal you were offered is fantastic and though I'm no longer with Beachcomber, I can assure you that you need to reconsider the total value. Where abouts in Ontario are you?

If I'm too late, go get your deposit back! If they won't give it to you, I'll start a fund here and we'll collect the money!

The BC 750 is one of the alltime most comfortable, therapeutic and amazing spas money can buy. You'll never regret owning it!

As for Dazed... ohhhhhh nevermind...

Steve

[webber233]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. What can you tell me that the Beachcomber has over the Sundance Optima? Especially enough to warrant the comments you made. You make it sound like Beachcomber is head and shoulders better than the Optima....whereas all I've heard from everyone else is that the Sundance is the top quality tub.

Thanks,
Chris.

[Steve]

Hi Chris,
Understanding that most of my post was a bit tongue in cheek, I do strongly believe that the 750 along with the entire line of Beachcomber, is a very strong product. I don't believe any one spa is right for everyone, however, consumers don't get to see the inner workings of how Beachcomber operates and looks after their customers. Unfortunately, consumers are often led astray by misleading "sales tactics" without proof or merit. This one comment stands out from your posts that leads me to believe that you have been mislead.

Am I right in thinking that the Sundance and Jacuzzi are made with a better quality standard in mind than the Beachcomber? They both seem to have better filtration systems than the Beachcomber.

Neither comment is accurate and I would like to understand the reason you feel this way. One example is that the Beachcomber offers 24 hour filtration giving the user a tub that filters 42,000 gallons of water per day and is as quiet as a bee fart. The tub will draw 0.6 amps during this so I have no idea how Sundance and Jacuzzi can improve upon this and offer better filtration?

"Top quality" is a subjective remark and there are many happy owners of all brands. If you do your research, you'll find many happy Beachcomber owners on this and all forums as well so deciding your purchase on that isn't realist in my opinion. Let me ask you what makes these tubs a better quality as you are the consumer that has come to this conclusion? Can I ask what area(s) of the spa is of lesser quality and why?

In all seriousness, I do wish you give your dealer another chance to show you the real advantages of this spa.

Steve

[stuart]

is as quiet as a bee fart

How do you know this?! Tell me you haven't tested it out to get that info? What the heck are you guys doing up there in the north?

[webber233]

Steve,

YOu say that the beachcomber has 24 hour filtration as though you don't realise that the Optima also has this with their circulation pump...and also betters it by having a micro filter that filters the water down to less than 1 micron. Both tubs seem to be terrific quality, but I just find that this filtration system, along with their titanium heating element and their, bearingless, stainless steel jets are a step above the beachcomber....whereas the beachcomber uses the standard waterways jets that seem cheap in comparison. Do you know a lot about the Optima, or are you just a big fan of the beachcomber? I welcome any input you or anyone else may have.

Thanks,
Chris.

[Steve]

YOu say that the beachcomber has 24 hour filtration as though you don't realise that the Optima also has this with their circulation pump

I sure do realize it but what YOU might not is that Beachcomber uses a 48 frame motor. Sundance uses a tiny circ pump. It has to work much harder and therefore the life expectancy is lessened. The big kicker is that if their tiny circ pump fails, there's no serviceable parts and the entire pump will need replacing. Beachcomber's Hush pump is 100% serviceable where a pump seal that needs replacing 8 years from now will cost you $50.00 rather than the costs of total replacement. Find out the cost of that tiny unit..you'll be shocked! This 48 frame motor Beachcomber uses draws 0.6 amps and draws the equivalent of a light bulb to operate. This is what I mean by doing the homework and truly finding out the differences. That's not a shot at you Chris but it does point out that though there may be similarities, a closer comparison is demanded in most cases.

...and also betters it by having a micro filter that filters the water down to less than 1 micron.

Sales BS. Nothing more.

Both tubs seem to be terrific quality, but I just find that this filtration system, along with their titanium heating element and their, bearingless, stainless steel jets are a step above the beachcomber

Beachcomber used stainless steel jets too. 12 years ago. Are these the SS plates that fit over the plastic jets? Yes they are. As for the "stainless" part...they will be for the first 6 months. Once the SS caps fall off, you will be happy with your plastic jet bodies!

....whereas the beachcomber uses the standard waterways jets that seem cheap in comparison.

They certainly aren't as flashy...you're right. But function is the key.

Do you know a lot about the Optima, or are you just a big fan of the beachcomber? I welcome any input you or anyone else may have.

I sold Beachcomber for many years in the largest Beachcomber store in the world. Now, that doesn't mean I know everything but I can tell you that you have missed some critical comparison shopping. Sundance is a decent unit. I don't like filtration systems that take up 2 seats myself but hey.... they're decent. I do know that the Beachcomber system is commercial rated and surpasses those guidelines. In a residential setting it's way more than enough AND SERVICEABLE IF NEED BE.

Steve

[Steve]

How do you know this?! Tell me you haven't tested it out to get that info? What the heck are you guys doing up there in the north?

Well Stuart... we have designed a lab that records decible readings of sounds undetectable by the human ear. We first used my wife asking me to vacuum. Nope...nothing registered.  

The bee fart was 0.00000124  and compared to Beachcomber's Hush pump that registered 0.00000123 decibles, I concidered it similar though obviously much more quiet based on our data. I didn't want to overstate it's superiority initially. Come to think of it, we sure could have used a Sundance filter after the horrible smell. I mean down to 1 micron could have been manageable I'm guessing! Sorry Chris...just teasing!

Steve

[ebirrane]

Just to pop in to the disagreement..

Steve said the 1 micron thing is sales BS, and I agree.  Most filtration systems in the industry are pure sales BS.

Hot springs, for example, offers 100% no-bypass filtration.  This means everything sucked in through a pump gets sucked through a filter first.  BUT this means items can collect at the bottom of the tub since the intakes are all at the "surface" (I think up to 6" deep) skimmer.

Sundance (optima) has suction jets on the bottom which means while the surface skimmers have a 1 micro rating anything that sinks to the bottom and churned about does not necessarily get into the filter, but is sucked into the plumbing.  Especially heavier items like grains of sand, pieces of dirt, etc...

The circulation pump on the optima (and my hot springs too) runs 24/7 but does not move anywhere NEAR the amount of water as in, say, the beachcomber (assuming Steve is telling the truth about gallons per day   ).  I think my grandee moves the water 10 times a day, for a total of 4,500 gallons per day. That isn't considered enough agitation for perfect filtering.  Try leaving an optima with the cover on for a week, no pumps running, and just the circulation pump, and see where that 1 micron filtration gets ya! I believe we call it the "green water feature".

There is no "silver bullet" filtration system that voids the need for regular hot tub maintenance.  Be it Sundance's micro-filter, Hot Springs no-bypass filtration, or whatever beachcomber does.

Use all three tubs and do recommended maintenance and you'll have clean bubbly water even with such "vastly" superior/inferior filtration systems. To imply differently really *is* marketing BS.

The only thing that doesn't seem to be marketing BS is how much of a pain regular maintenance is.  I am looking into the Hot Springs tri-x filters since they have more square footage and you clean them by running them through the dishwasher.  Not sure what cleaning regimes are required for the optima versus the beachcomber, but I'd put the micrometer away and look there to see a tangible difference

-Ed

[bethshar]

Webber,
You are going to love the Optima.  Ignore Steve.  You have the facts right if you ask me.  Both are excellent quality products.  However, when you sit in each of these tubs you will notice a difference.  Optima jet power is much stronger than Beachcomber.  It just doesn't compare.  Some say they don't want the high power jets.  On the Optima you can turn them down as much or as little as you want.  I like to turn the jets high on my lower back and feet for a while, then turn it down, or turn on the blower to relax.  The foot dome is awesome.  We found the beachcomber foot jet placement  very awkward.   Overalll, I think you will really enjoy the Optima.  Don't let others cast doubts on your decision based on things like how much it costs to fix a pump when and if it breaks.  Both are good companies and you shouldn't be dealing with issues like that for a very very long time.  Who knows what a pump will cost in 15 years.  The Optima will make you feel so good you won't care.  

[bethshar]

Oh yeah.  Forgot to mention that the Beachcomber jets seem to fall out their place quite easily.  I had read about this when I was shopping, but also read that the problem was fixed.  Well, when my husband wet tested the beachcomber 2004 model, every time he went to adjust a jet it came out in his hand.

Enjoy your Optima -

[Chris_H]

"I sure do realize it but what YOU might not is that Beachcomber uses a 48 frame motor. Sundance uses a tiny circ pump. It has to work much harder and therefore the life expectancy is lessened. The big kicker is that if their tiny circ pump fails, there's no serviceable parts and the entire pump will need replacing. Beachcomber's Hush pump is 100% serviceable where a pump seal that needs replacing 8 years from now will cost you $50.00 rather than the costs of total replacement. Find out the cost of that tiny unit..you'll be shocked! This 48 frame motor Beachcomber uses draws 0.6 amps and draws the equivalent of a light bulb to operate. This is what I mean by doing the homework and truly finding out the differences. That's not a shot at you Chris but it does point out that though there may be similarities, a closer comparison is demanded in most cases.”

Steve you are correct that it will need replacing if it fails.  Retail about $200.00 bucks.  If you would do your homework, you would realize it does not fail very often.  A heater fails much more often than a circ pump.

"...and also betters it by having a micro filter that filters the water down to less than 1 micron.

Sales BS. Nothing more.”

Umm…  Steve it is not sales BS.  It is certified by the National Sanitization Foundation (NSF) to filter down to 1-micron.  It is the same filter cartridge used in two stage water purification systems used in your house.  Hotspring also has their non-TriX cartridges certified by the NSF.  They filter down the 18-micron.  Any type of certification on your Beachcomber?

"Both tubs seem to be terrific quality, but I just find that this filtration system, along with their titanium heating element and their, bearingless, stainless steel jets are a step above the beachcomber

Beachcomber used stainless steel jets too. 12 years ago. Are these the SS plates that fit over the plastic jets? Yes they are. As for the "stainless" part...they will be for the first 6 months. Once the SS caps fall off, you will be happy with your plastic jet bodies!”

Actually, you are wrong.  Ask an Optima owner for the last 2 years if the stainless coating is falling off.  

I see you didn’t comment on the titanium heater (with unconditional warranty) or the bearlingless jets that Sundance offers (with a .03 failure rate since introduction).  It isn’t like you not to have an opinion on something.

Also, there is no reason to bust my balls twice in the same thread.  I’m not JA.  No one deserves to be treated like him.

[webber233]

Thanks for your opinion Steve, but so far you haven'tpointed out anything that substantiates your initial post of:

"STOP. DO NOT SIGN THOSE PAPERS!!!! (God I hope I'm not too late)
Sundance over Beachcomber? I don't get it? "

If both are the same price how can you compare them. I mean, you haven't given me anything that the beachcomber is a higher quality product than the Sundance. And now that the Sundance is $500 less and comes with a CD Ozonator instead of the UV ozonator it even makes less sense. Don't get me wrong. I think both are very high quality products and they are both top of the line, but if they are both the same price, then I believe the Optima is the better value for your money.

Thanks,
Chris.

[Steve]

you haven't given me anything that the beachcomber is a higher quality product than the Sundance.Chris.

It's not up to me to do that Chris. Just pointing out the sales gimmicks that can trip up even an educated shopper like yourself. Hell...I don't even sell them!

I'll let bethstar bring this down to a level that I won't even attempt to respond to or Chris_H promoting sales BS that equates to about 1% of the purchase, but at the end of the day Chris, you need to determine value for yourself after finding out the real truth behind the BS. I hope you feel you've done that. If you decide on the Sundance, I still wish you the best with your new tub. Even if it has a plutonium heater. WOW. A heater is $75.00 and should last 10 years if you look after your water. Any more gimmicks you want to throw my way?
BTW, BC has a teflon heater so the element itself never touches the water. Again...1% of the purchase and I'm not impressed.

Ball buster Steve!