Hot Tub Wiring

[hobble23]

I'm looking at what wire I need to purchase for wiring my hot tub. I'm in Canada and Nova Scotia so we need to hire an electrician either way but I'd like to run the wires etc. 

The Hot Tub we are getting requires 6 AWG with a minimum ground of 8 AWG.  I could do almost the entire run indoors with a short section outdoors.  I would like to not use TECH 90 on the indoors as it's overkill - but it seems there exists no wire for purchase that has 3 conductors + ground whereby the ground is 8 AWG.  The ground is always 10 AWG which makes it not good enough. 

I could use TECH 90 for the whole thing - but that really seems ridiculous to do that.  Does this make any sense as to why I cannot find a compatible wire for such a common installation?  Are folks generally ignoring that they need a 8 AWG for the ground?

[Tman122]

I'm looking at what wire I need to purchase for wiring my hot tub. I'm in Canada and Nova Scotia so we need to hire an electrician either way but I'd like to run the wires etc. 

The Hot Tub we are getting requires 6 AWG with a minimum ground of 8 AWG.  I could do almost the entire run indoors with a short section outdoors.  I would like to not use TECH 90 on the indoors as it's overkill - but it seems there exists no wire for purchase that has 3 conductors + ground whereby the ground is 8 AWG.  The ground is always 10 AWG which makes it not good enough. 

I could use TECH 90 for the whole thing - but that really seems ridiculous to do that.  Does this make any sense as to why I cannot find a compatible wire for such a common installation?  Are folks generally ignoring that they need a 8 AWG for the ground?

Most people run single strands in PVC conduit.

[bud16415]

I'm looking at what wire I need to purchase for wiring my hot tub. I'm in Canada and Nova Scotia so we need to hire an electrician either way but I'd like to run the wires etc. 

The Hot Tub we are getting requires 6 AWG with a minimum ground of 8 AWG.  I could do almost the entire run indoors with a short section outdoors.  I would like to not use TECH 90 on the indoors as it's overkill - but it seems there exists no wire for purchase that has 3 conductors + ground whereby the ground is 8 AWG.  The ground is always 10 AWG which makes it not good enough. 

I could use TECH 90 for the whole thing - but that really seems ridiculous to do that.  Does this make any sense as to why I cannot find a compatible wire for such a common installation?  Are folks generally ignoring that they need a 8 AWG for the ground?

I don’t know the code in Canada very well. All Romex 6/3CU NM-B W/G in the states comes with a #10 ground conductor as far as I know. I wired my own tube no electrician needed here with a 50a breaker at the panel used the #6 romex thru the house and code says that romex is not allowed for outside or in conduit service so you must transition at that point in a Jbox to outdoor service rated cable leading to your GFCI breaker located within eye sight of the tub but at least 5’ from the tub.

My tub required a 30a and a 20a GFCI so from there to the tub I ran single conductors in conduit #10.

If you can somehow keep the romex run in the house and go thru the exterior wall and straight into the GFCI breaker that would be legal here.

I don’t understand the code saying you need #8 ground for the run.

If it was me I would talk to who I was planning to hire to do the rest of the hook up and see if they even will allow you to run the wire. Sometimes they have to be able to inspect every inch of the run or they wont connect it. If you need ditches dug and such you could DIY and save there.   

[hobble23]

Single strands work well for outside and I know I could use that but inside running conduit through wall is not good of fun.  The Romex has a #10 ground conductor but the tub calls for #8 as do most tubs. I know a lot of folks seem to use Romex 6 AWG 3C with the #10 ground in the house and then transition to the strands in conduit or TECH 90 etc but based on spec that should not be allowed because the ground in Romex is not #8.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I'm looking at what wire I need to purchase for wiring my hot tub. I'm in Canada and Nova Scotia so we need to hire an electrician either way but I'd like to run the wires etc. 

The Hot Tub we are getting requires 6 AWG with a minimum ground of 8 AWG.  I could do almost the entire run indoors with a short section outdoors.  I would like to not use TECH 90 on the indoors as it's overkill - but it seems there exists no wire for purchase that has 3 conductors + ground whereby the ground is 8 AWG.  The ground is always 10 AWG which makes it not good enough. 

I could use TECH 90 for the whole thing - but that really seems ridiculous to do that.  Does this make any sense as to why I cannot find a compatible wire for such a common installation?  Are folks generally ignoring that they need a 8 AWG for the ground?

I don’t know the code in Canada very well. All Romex 6/3CU NM-B W/G in the states comes with a #10 ground conductor as far as I know. I wired my own tube no electrician needed here with a 50a breaker at the panel used the #6 romex thru the house and code says that romex is not allowed for outside or in conduit service so you must transition at that point in a Jbox to outdoor service rated cable leading to your GFCI breaker located within eye sight of the tub but at least 5’ from the tub.

My tub required a 30a and a 20a GFCI so from there to the tub I ran single conductors in conduit #10.

If you can somehow keep the romex run in the house and go thru the exterior wall and straight into the GFCI breaker that would be legal here.

I don’t understand the code saying you need #8 ground for the run.

If it was me I would talk to who I was planning to hire to do the rest of the hook up and see if they even will allow you to run the wire. Sometimes they have to be able to inspect every inch of the run or they wont connect it. If you need ditches dug and such you could DIY and save there.

#8 jacketed wire is what 99% of hot tubs require for the ground....Run individual strands through 3/4" flex conduit is the most common way I've seen spas wired....(2) 'hot wires' (1) Common/Neutral Wire all in 6 awg then your jacketed #8 in green for the ground

[bachman]

I believe my set up is schedule 40 pvc / single strand wires from breaker box in garage through crawl space and basement ceiling to outside wall J-box, 50 amp GFCI. Then Sched 40 pvc underground to tub location on patio pavers. Where it comes above the paver stones, it's the liquid tight flexible conduit for 18" or so to the tub.

[bud16415]

I'm looking at what wire I need to purchase for wiring my hot tub. I'm in Canada and Nova Scotia so we need to hire an electrician either way but I'd like to run the wires etc. 

The Hot Tub we are getting requires 6 AWG with a minimum ground of 8 AWG.  I could do almost the entire run indoors with a short section outdoors.  I would like to not use TECH 90 on the indoors as it's overkill - but it seems there exists no wire for purchase that has 3 conductors + ground whereby the ground is 8 AWG.  The ground is always 10 AWG which makes it not good enough. 

I could use TECH 90 for the whole thing - but that really seems ridiculous to do that.  Does this make any sense as to why I cannot find a compatible wire for such a common installation?  Are folks generally ignoring that they need a 8 AWG for the ground?

I don’t know the code in Canada very well. All Romex 6/3CU NM-B W/G in the states comes with a #10 ground conductor as far as I know. I wired my own tube no electrician needed here with a 50a breaker at the panel used the #6 romex thru the house and code says that romex is not allowed for outside or in conduit service so you must transition at that point in a Jbox to outdoor service rated cable leading to your GFCI breaker located within eye sight of the tub but at least 5’ from the tub.

My tub required a 30a and a 20a GFCI so from there to the tub I ran single conductors in conduit #10.

If you can somehow keep the romex run in the house and go thru the exterior wall and straight into the GFCI breaker that would be legal here.

I don’t understand the code saying you need #8 ground for the run.

If it was me I would talk to who I was planning to hire to do the rest of the hook up and see if they even will allow you to run the wire. Sometimes they have to be able to inspect every inch of the run or they wont connect it. If you need ditches dug and such you could DIY and save there.

#8 jacketed wire is what 99% of hot tubs require for the ground....Run individual strands through 3/4" flex conduit is the most common way I've seen spas wired....(2) 'hot wires' (1) Common/Neutral Wire all in 6 awg then your jacketed #8 in green for the ground

Here is the code change in the states concerning grounding conductors and cable runs within the structure and non corrosive environments.

Not sure what Canada says but this may be the reason your information shows an insulated ground sized the way it was.

Again check with your electrician and Canadian code before making your interior run.

http://www.electricallicenserenewal.com/Electrical-Continuing-Education-Courses/NEC-Content.php?sectionID=373.0

   
As to BullFrogSpasMN I think the method you described would be fine, but I’m pretty sure NEC limits the length of flex conduit to 6’and in some cases 15’. Plus it would be very hard to pull 4 conductors that size thru flex conduit much longer than that. Ridged would be the only way to do it to code.

[hobble23]

There is the matter of requiring an insulated ground on the exterior cable run. I will use tech 90 for that but on the interior portion this is where I’d rather not use the tech 90 but I think that is the only choice because all other cable with 6 awg come with a 10 awg ground and I need #8. I would not be able to pull conduit through the walls I don’t think due to access to run store are wires. Can you pull as much flex conduit as you want in the interior or is it restricted to 6 feet?. I don’t understand the length restriction in liquid tire and why it is needed.

Thanks
Andrew

[bud16415]

There is the matter of requiring an insulated ground on the exterior cable run. I will use tech 90 for that but on the interior portion this is where I’d rather not use the tech 90 but I think that is the only choice because all other cable with 6 awg come with a 10 awg ground and I need #8. I would not be able to pull conduit through the walls I don’t think due to access to run store are wires. Can you pull as much flex conduit as you want in the interior or is it restricted to 6 feet?. I don’t understand the length restriction in liquid tire and why it is needed.

Thanks
Andrew

Again these are USA NEC codes and may or may not be close to yours. The idea behind the flex conduit is to allow for some movement and adjustment at the final point of connection.

I can tell you I ran about 50’ of  #6 romex with the #10 ground to my GFCI. All thru the basement it was uncovered and for the last short length it exited the basement and ran up to my GFCI, I ran it inside 2” PVC. Coming out of the GFCI enclosure I switched to individual stranded wires and ran them back down and under the deck in flex seal-tite. My tub has a wooden floor in the area of the equipment and below that an ABS pan bottom. I Drilled a tight hole thru that and the deck and brought my power in from below for a nice clean look.

I have had no issues with doing this over the last 4 years.

So yes my grounding conductor from the GFCI to the tub is an insulated conductor.

If done correctly I would have run from my main panel to a new sub panel with the Romex inside the house that is totally to code and then ran conduit to the GFCI panel outside with individual conductors per what you are stating is required. It seemed silly to me to do that as in my case the wires were barely leaving the house and not going underground and are 100% dry.

The only way you will know for sure seeing as how you will be inspected is to ask in advance ether directly or thru the electrician you will use. 

[BullFrogSpasMN]

There is the matter of requiring an insulated ground on the exterior cable run. I will use tech 90 for that but on the interior portion this is where I’d rather not use the tech 90 but I think that is the only choice because all other cable with 6 awg come with a 10 awg ground and I need #8. I would not be able to pull conduit through the walls I don’t think due to access to run store are wires. Can you pull as much flex conduit as you want in the interior or is it restricted to 6 feet?. I don’t understand the length restriction in liquid tire and why it is needed.

Thanks
Andrew

6' is typically what is allowed 'outside'....inside the spa or 'walls' you can run additional flex conduit if need be, although most inspectors won't cause a fuss if you have a couple extra feet outdoors, but ya don't run 35' of flex conduit across your patio as they won't pass it assuming you are even getting it inspected.  3/4" or 1" are the most common sizes used, with the 3/4" you might need some electricians 'lube' to make it easier to pull the wire through...good luck!

[gmdodt]

this brings up another topic. Once the wiring enters the hot tub cabinet, does it technically need to be in codinuit anymore, or can be it free cables running into the spa circuit board.? My pvc stops at the hot tub cabinet

[bachman]

gmdodt

Not sure of the code.
Mine is pvc through the house, buried to the terrace and pops up just above paverstone surface. At that elbow- Flex liquid tight to and through the abs or whatever base at the tub continuing to the 'brain box' inside the panel. The flex conduit is about a 30 inch run total. It's evident the s/s brain box is designed to be used with conduit connections, and all made very convenient.

[bud16415]

Bachman,
I did mine similar to yours my seal-tite runs thru the pump area and I put a fitting with a electrical nut into what I figured was the electrical box inside the tub. I was a bit disappointed with this plastic box and lid as it was very thin and I put the nut on backwards with fear if done the other way the teeth on the nut would cut thru the box.

The cabinet itself I would not conceder an electrical enclosure as it is made from wood etc. even though I feel it is just as safe doing it that way as the plastic box provided. I have seen lots of them where the wires are just stuck thru the hole.     

[bachman]

+  Bud

I had an electrician I trusted so everything was to his liking, ideas or standards. I take no credit in any part of it aside from my estimate on where the conduit comes up - About 10" off from the corner of the tub …. Doh !!!! 
I even apologized to my friend / electrician since I felt it made him look bad. He just laughed. I'll put something ornamental at the sides of the tub or endcap the steps as I see often for landscape aesthetics or curb appeal. Now when I see all the nice beautified tubs, I think of all the mistakes they might be hiding !!   

I can picture your dilemma with the box not being as secure as a metal one. The flex conduit in mine came up and had to curl back around as a U-turn so we were happy to have just enough room in here to do so without any extra stress or pull at the junction. It ended up fitting snug against some plumbing.

Flipping that toothed washer was a smart move. I don't believe these things typically vibrate or rattle as much as I might have guessed but those little details 'we' think of sometimes offer peace of mind if not insurance.

[swilly1000]

I had an electrician I trusted so everything was to his liking, ideas or standards. I take no credit in any part of it aside from my estimate on where the conduit comes up - About 10" off from the corner of the tub …. Doh !!!! 

After reading a lot of posts by electricians experience on the high likelihood of missing the mark on where the conduit comes up I planned, checked, double checked and triple checked my mark.  Even after that the electrician had the conduit off by 8" and we had to move it yet again before pouring the concrete pad. Thankfully we hit the right spot.  This is a classic case of measure twice cut once.