ACE System- Yes or No?

[matt1201]

I'm about to pull the trigger on our first hot tub, a Limelight Flair.  Am I crazy not to take advantage of the ACE?  They want $1300 for it.  Lots of bad luck stories with the ACE system but most seem to be from 3-5 years ago.  Has it improved so the system has less problems and lasts longer in 2018?  I don't mind the upfront cost and understand the benefits but I really don't like the idea of replacing the cell every 18 months at $700-800.  Please help!  Grinding on this decision....

[sergey]

Arctic Spa replacement is much cheaper
I am also looking into Hot Spring  Spa + ACE
https://www.arcticspastore.com/parts/onzen-electrode-salt-cell-cartridge-5-plate-spa-boy-only-arctic-spas/

[castletonia]

The ACE cell to my knowledge has the same longevity today as it had 2 years ago, 4 years ago, etc.  Replacement cost is decided by your local retailer, but expect in the $700 - $750 range.  How long the cell lasts depends on a bunch of factors: what you set your output to, how big of spa you have, your usage, whether you also use the AG+ Silver Ion purifier, ozone or no ozone, etc).  I tell my customers to expect 2-3 years.

I have only been a Hot Spring dealer for about a year now, but many of the issues I have seen have been due to water chemistry and misconceptions that were created by the previous retailer.  I make sure all my customers know what the replacement cell cost is, what the warranty is, and what the life expectancy is.  I also discount the cell depending on how old the previous, failed cell is.

Do I like ACE and would I use it personally, yes.  But I do not overly "push" my customers towards it.  I explain the benefits and let them choose.  I currently sell ACE on approximately 50% of the compatible Hot Springs I sell.

[Chas]

I'm trying to sell two ACE systems - one was installed and used for two months, then sat in my warehouse for several years. I sold the cell, so I will put it together with a new cell.

The other is new in box, a month old. Never installed or used at all.

If you do buy a HotSpring tub, save a bunch. Let me know if you have any interest. I will take your Freshwater III ozone as a partial trade if you are interested - you don't need both.

 

[Chas]

Matt,

I just realized that I didn't answer your question. I like the ACE system - it makes much more than just Chlorine as many other systems do. I like the way the water feels. I like being able to push a button to 'boost' or shock the tub. Having said that, I need to say that I did not sell a lot of them while we were dealers. You can buy many lifetimes of chlorine for the price of a system (usually around $1500)

And yes, the cells do have a finite lifetime. If you set the system real high, and "boost" it often, as in a high-use tub, you will get around two years or so. If you go easy on the system by setting it just high enough to do the job, and simply add dichlor for a shock, (I know!!!) usually about once a month, you will easily get three years out of a cell. And they do cost around $700 to $800 each - not tough for DIY installation.

I have a customer on the beach who has just started their fourth year on the same cell. I go out once a month and check it all out, change the water once a year, and the tub doesn't get much use. If any. I have had the cell clog up once, and I cleaned it with a mild solution of Pool Acid and distilled water - I gently cleaned out the passageways (don't tell the factory about that last bit) and it's going strong. That particular customer is a 'money is no object' type, and they simply added the ACE because I told them it was a top-of-the-line system on a top-of-the-line spa.

The choice is up to you: if you like technical bits and systems, this is as good as they get. It integrates with the computer control of the spa well. If you want to avoid chlorine, this system doesn't really do that, though you don't smell or feel the chlorine and other radical oxidizers the system produces. Now, you can achieve a chlorine-free soaking experience by simply adding a small bit of Dichlor after each soak - it will be gone by the next time you go to soak. And, it's almost free by comparison.

HTH - feel free to ask more questions if you have them.

Chas

[bud16415]

Not a dealer nor a scientist here. I think a salt water based chlorine generating system is a great idea. I think the Ace system is way over priced to install and super over priced to maintain.

The salt in the water does improve the feel and smoothness of the water. I recently added salt in the concentration I would have with a generator to my tub to test how we liked just the salt feel. My plan now with the better weather is to add a Saltron Mini to my tub. It is an aftermarket unit that makes chlorine out of salt water. Plain and simple and the anode hangs in the tub when not being used and that allows you to soak it in vinegar and clean it every couple months. When the anode does wear out it is about 100 bucks to replace and that is pretty high as well IMO. My friend has this system, he cleans his unit and he has had the same anode for about 5 years. I’m not selling this product in any way there are several other companies selling similar products.

I don’t know what these other things the ace system claims to make or why you need them in your water.   

[Chas]

The ACE system uses different chemistry than a typical salt system. Most of the inexpensive units just make chlorine. It's convenient, I suppose, but it's just chlorine being made from salt. With the way they plug into another outlet and hang over the edge of the tub, I personally don't see much difference than dosing the tub with Dichlor.

The ACE system can do salt level testing for you, and it will shut down if the cell gets clogged OR if the salt level is too high or two low, and it gives you an icon on the control panel of the tub, since it is integrated with the spa's computer. It has a lot of value for that high price tag.

I will admit that I thought the cells would last longer than they do because they use man-made diamond and other high-end materials - but I have been getting 2 to 3 years out of them, with the exception of one system which I run for a customer which is starting it's fourth year doing fine.

Expensive, for sure. But it's a good solid system. It's backed by Watkins Wellness, so parts and support should be ongoing. Whether or not it's worth the extra money is up to the individual.

 

[bud16415]

For some reason and I’m not a chemist this Active Oxygen claim made with diamonds in the electrode, they call  OH made from H2O and different from O2 or ozone O3 just doesn’t set well.

The claim as I understand it is they convert the salt in the water into chlorine and they also crack the water into this OH similar to electrolysis where you would get hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen acts like a non chlorine shock being produced at the same time as the chlorine sanitizer. That leaves hydrogen left behind as a gas in a sealed up hot tub.

Something doesn’t seem correct with all this. I will have to talk it over with some of my chemist friends and see what they think.

Bottom line for me is chlorine is what I want made and I want it dispensed slowly and when I’m away from the tub for a week or more at a time. It is easy to add dichlor also but it should be done daily. I tend to shock when needed once a week max and every other week min. Dichlor has way more stabilizer than I need and why now I switch to liquid after a few weeks of dichlor. Dichlor is fairly cheap and liquid bleach is very cheap. Salt is super cheap.

For me salt conversion is for ease of maintaining the tub and the added feel of bathing in salt water.

The ACE measuring the salt level is nice I think some of the new after markets are measuring and adjusting levels based on usage and demand. Those are nice features, and some people might be willing to pay the price for that.     

[d00nut]

For some reason and I’m not a chemist this Active Oxygen claim made with diamonds in the electrode, they call  OH made from H2O and different from O2 or ozone O3 just doesn’t set well.

The claim as I understand it is they convert the salt in the water into chlorine and they also crack the water into this OH similar to electrolysis where you would get hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen acts like a non chlorine shock being produced at the same time as the chlorine sanitizer. That leaves hydrogen left behind as a gas in a sealed up hot tub.

Something doesn’t seem correct with all this. I will have to talk it over with some of my chemist friends and see what they think.

Bottom line for me is chlorine is what I want made and I want it dispensed slowly and when I’m away from the tub for a week or more at a time. It is easy to add dichlor also but it should be done daily. I tend to shock when needed once a week max and every other week min. Dichlor has way more stabilizer than I need and why now I switch to liquid after a few weeks of dichlor. Dichlor is fairly cheap and liquid bleach is very cheap. Salt is super cheap.

For me salt conversion is for ease of maintaining the tub and the added feel of bathing in salt water.

The ACE measuring the salt level is nice I think some of the new after markets are measuring and adjusting levels based on usage and demand. Those are nice features, and some people might be willing to pay the price for that.   

My experience in selling and servicing the ACE system for the last 8 years... People don't purchase it because it's cheap... or because they want to save money.  No way.  In fact, I tell them straight up, it's the most expensive way to go in maintaining their hot tub, outside of Silk Balance probably.

Yet people spend $600 a year easy on Silk Balance, $850 for a cell every 2-3 years seems cheap

If you are about cost effective sanitization, stay away from ACE.  You won't be able to sell yourself. 

It's more about the experience with it.  I'll be honest, I've had ACE on my personal tub coming up on 4 years.  I don't necessarily see myself switching unless something better comes along.  I love it.  My wife loves it <-- more important.  I HAVEN'T replaced my cell yet... but I am anticipating soon.  I leave ozone in my tub, leave output around 2 (maybe 3,) and I have an on the go water softener to keep calcium level low.

[bud16415]

For some reason and I’m not a chemist this Active Oxygen claim made with diamonds in the electrode, they call  OH made from H2O and different from O2 or ozone O3 just doesn’t set well.

The claim as I understand it is they convert the salt in the water into chlorine and they also crack the water into this OH similar to electrolysis where you would get hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen acts like a non chlorine shock being produced at the same time as the chlorine sanitizer. That leaves hydrogen left behind as a gas in a sealed up hot tub.

Something doesn’t seem correct with all this. I will have to talk it over with some of my chemist friends and see what they think.

Bottom line for me is chlorine is what I want made and I want it dispensed slowly and when I’m away from the tub for a week or more at a time. It is easy to add dichlor also but it should be done daily. I tend to shock when needed once a week max and every other week min. Dichlor has way more stabilizer than I need and why now I switch to liquid after a few weeks of dichlor. Dichlor is fairly cheap and liquid bleach is very cheap. Salt is super cheap.

For me salt conversion is for ease of maintaining the tub and the added feel of bathing in salt water.

The ACE measuring the salt level is nice I think some of the new after markets are measuring and adjusting levels based on usage and demand. Those are nice features, and some people might be willing to pay the price for that.   

My experience in selling and servicing the ACE system for the last 8 years... People don't purchase it because it's cheap... or because they want to save money.  No way.  In fact, I tell them straight up, it's the most expensive way to go in maintaining their hot tub, outside of Silk Balance probably.

Yet people spend $600 a year easy on Silk Balance, $850 for a cell every 2-3 years seems cheap

If you are about cost effective sanitization, stay away from ACE.  You won't be able to sell yourself. 

It's more about the experience with it.  I'll be honest, I've had ACE on my personal tub coming up on 4 years.  I don't necessarily see myself switching unless something better comes along.  I love it.  My wife loves it <-- more important.  I HAVEN'T replaced my cell yet... but I am anticipating soon.  I leave ozone in my tub, leave output around 2 (maybe 3,) and I have an on the go water softener to keep calcium level low.

I agree with that.

[Chas]

I am getting an on-the-go water softener too. The 'Vanishing Act' bags just don't do it for me - I have to leave it in place for three days, usually, and that includes flipping it every 24 hours. I serviced a customer tub after the Thomas Fire, and they pulled out a portable tank - worked like a champ!! I'm sold.

[Aquatub88]

If you do not want to add the ACE Salt Generation option to a Hotsprings tub is it possible to utilize chlorine as a sanitizer and add a mineral supplement to give the water a silky feeling?  I'm looking for recommendations and peoples experiences.

[bud16415]

If you do not want to add the ACE Salt Generation option to a Hotsprings tub is it possible to utilize chlorine as a sanitizer and add a mineral supplement to give the water a silky feeling?  I'm looking for recommendations and peoples experiences.

Right now that’s whet I’m doing. I have added salt to the same level if I had a salt to chlorine system and then I do my sanitizing with Dichlor and switching to household bleach once the proper stabilizer level is reached.   

[The Wizard of Spas]

If you do not want to add the ACE Salt Generation option to a Hotsprings tub is it possible to utilize chlorine as a sanitizer and add a mineral supplement to give the water a silky feeling?  I'm looking for recommendations and peoples experiences.

Right now that’s whet I’m doing. I have added salt to the same level if I had a salt to chlorine system and then I do my sanitizing with Dichlor and switching to household bleach once the proper stabilizer level is reached.

Best product that I have seen that makes the water soft, doesn't dry the skin, and makes the experience pleasant is Gentle Spa from ProTeam (Haviland).  It works with any sanitizer.  That is what I suggest when the client doesn't want to pay for the salt system but wants the best feeling water possible. 

[silversun]

If you do not want to add the ACE Salt Generation option to a Hotsprings tub is it possible to utilize chlorine as a sanitizer and add a mineral supplement to give the water a silky feeling?  I'm looking for recommendations and peoples experiences.

Right now that’s whet I’m doing. I have added salt to the same level if I had a salt to chlorine system and then I do my sanitizing with Dichlor and switching to household bleach once the proper stabilizer level is reached.

whats the right stabilizer level to switch to household bleach? And how much do you use?