New to Hot Tubs: Top Reliable Brands?

[The Wizard of Spas]

All of the highest quality electronics come from......................

This can be said for a lot of things. It's the processes and the companies that make a good product not the location of manufacturing.

The best ammunition in the world is made in the USA. It also cost the most.

This is true.  Well put. 

[d00nut]

So I get that.  And that is a reasoned and rational response.  In the spirit of that response, and with respect to you as I in no way think you're uninformed or otherwise not a knowledgeable poster with great insight, do you really fell that its just an emotional pitch or a quality pitch or both?  That is just an honest question- Not trying to point-counter-point. 

My issue is that many USA manufacturers, not all, abuse the "Made in the USA" mantra.  It's misleading to customers to think they are getting top quality stuff... when in fact they are buying literal pieces of crap. 

Dr. Wellness is made in the USA, and I feel bad for every poor sucker that got that over say... a Jacuzzi (I do not sell Jacuzzi BTW.) 

It's a quality pitch more than anything.  At least the way I am seeing it used.

Again, it's not every manufacturer.  Or those Manufacturers are all banking on people wearing MAGA hats

[Hottubguy]

I sell both. Made in America (Marquis) and made in Mexico (Caldera). There are things about both I like. Quality on each I would say is equal. Warranty claims roughly equal. Before I sold Caldera my second line was another tub made in the US. They were horrible Both quality wise and the company itself was a nightmare to deal with

[jtd1216]

Hi Everyone! I’d like to report back with some info and hopefully get some feedback from you guys. I absolutely LOVED the dealer I visited today. Such trustworthy folks and really knew their stuff. They offer both Bullfrog and Vita brands. They quoted me the following:

Bullfrog R7 with lifter, steps, delivery: $9,000 with additional either $500 instant rebate or 3.99% for 60 mos financing

Vita Monarch with lifter, steps, delivery: $7,700 http://vitaspa.com/hot-tubs/

I haven’t wet tested yet, but before I do, does anyone here have experience with Vita spas? The dealer was confident in their quality in comparison to BF. But from what I’ve seen for prices on here, isn’t $8,500 for a BF R7 a great price? I wonder if I should even consider the Vita.

[Tman122]

Hi Everyone! I’d like to report back with some info and hopefully get some feedback from you guys. I absolutely LOVED the dealer I visited today. Such trustworthy folks and really knew their stuff. They offer both Bullfrog and Vita brands. They quoted me the following:

Bullfrog R7 with lifter, steps, delivery: $9,000 with additional either $500 instant rebate or 3.99% for 60 mos financing

Vita Monarch with lifter, steps, delivery: $7,700 http://vitaspa.com/hot-tubs/

I haven’t wet tested yet, but before I do, does anyone here have experience with Vita spas? The dealer was confident in their quality in comparison to BF. But from what I’ve seen for prices on here, isn’t $8,500 for a BF R7 a great price? I wonder if I should even consider the Vita.

My experience with Vita isn't extensive but it isn't extensive with BF either. I consider Vita as good as BF and several others.

[jtd1216]

There's another good dealer in town that offers D1, specifically the @home series in my budget of $6-8k. How do you all feel D1 stacks up agains BF and Vita? The BF/Vita sales guy really pushes the fact that other brands have wood frames and sees that as a huge benefit/selling point. Any merit to that? I see that D1 is well respected on this forum.

[The Wizard of Spas]

I never got the wood frame argument?  If the shell is properly constructed, the weight of the spa is all centered in the footwell, with nominal weight around the perimeter, and the frame is merely there to keep the tub from racking, and for a mount for the cabinet.  Again- *IF* the tub is properly constructed as an aggregate. 

Wood could rot?  What do you think happens to steel when mixed with moisture?  Going resin?  That can warp.  I work at a spa factory and I haven't seen a frame warranty ever, regardless of the material.  Point is- I think its *all* about shell construction.  If you're relying on the frame as a huge sales point, its b/c you over-engineered your frame and under-engineered your shell. 

Ask questions about how the shell is constructed:  How many layers do they use?  Is there a vinyl esther layer?  What is the fiberglass content in the general resin coat (it should be at least 30% if the shell is being paid attention to in a manner that is quality).  Is every layer sprayed/applied thoroughly over the entire backside of the shell or just in the footwell?  Is there cleaners sprayed on before the glassing to increase the chemical bond?  Is the tub sanded before the molding and after each glassing application to increase the mechanical bond?  So on, so forth...

Those are the better, but less sexy, questions to ask.

[EDIT:  GRAMMAR]

[jtd1216]

Thanks wizard. Well from a shell construction standpoint, how's the D1 @home series stack up in comparison to those other two?

[Tman122]

Thanks wizard. Well from a shell construction standpoint, how's the D1 @home series stack up in comparison to those other two?

The D1 Nautalis is my personal favorite tub. The @home series is the value line from D1. I don't have a lot of experience with it either but D1 makes a quality tub.

Don't think D1 is represented on this board.

[Sam]

I never got the wood frame argument?  If the shell is properly constructed, the weight of the spa is all centered in the footwell, with nominal weight around the perimeter, and the frame is merely there to keep the tub from racking, and for a mount for the cabinet.  Again- *IF* the tub is properly constructed as an aggregate. 

Wood could rot?  What do you think happens to steel when mixed with moisture?  Going resin?  That can warp.  I work at a spa factory and I haven't seen a frame warranty ever, regardless of the material.  Point is- I think its *all* about shell construction.  If you're relying on the frame as a huge sales point, its b/c you over-engineered your frame and under-engineered your shell. 

Ask questions about how the shell is constructed:  How many layers do they use?  Is there a vinyl esther layer?  What is the fiberglass content in the general resin coat (it should be at least 30% if the shell is being paid attention to in a manner that is quality).  Is every layer sprayed/applied thoroughly over the entire backside of the shell or just in the footwell?  Is there cleaners sprayed on before the glassing to increase the chemical bond?  Is the tub sanded before the molding and after each glassing application to increase the mechanical bond?  So on, so forth...

Those are the better, but less sexy, questions to ask.

[EDIT:  GRAMMAR]

So you've never gone to move a wooden hot tub and had it completely fall apart in the process?  Because I have...hundreds of times.  I'm not saying that if it's a wood frame it's garbage because properly done, it's not a big deal.  But I just took 4 wood spas to the dump yesterday and they were falling apart. 

[d00nut]

I'm not saying that if it's a wood frame it's garbage because properly done, it's not a big deal. 

Yes.  Goes back to the brand. 

A poor Steel frame, or ABS frame suffers just the same.

What's everyone's home made of? 

That being said, I am not against ABS or Steel.  The Endless Pools all have Steel Frames, the NXT grandee I own is ABS.  But people make it a bigger deal than it really needs to be. 

[The Wizard of Spas]

To be clear- I am an advocate of shell quality- as noted in my statement above.  The frame should not be what is holding the tub up, but rather there as a stabilizer (hence- to guard against racking).  The weight is overwhelmingly distributed from the footwell.  If the tub has a quality shell, the frame is there more so as a cabinet mount. 

When the frame rots/rusts/warps, etc, that tub is generally 15, 20+ years old.  Just because a Chevy dies after 15 years doesn't mean their product is lousy or that they don't build their cars in a good manner.  And if you buy a tub that somehow has a frame issue, it probably has a slew of other issues and it is extremely likely the tub is a very low-end brand, and that is just what happens when you buy cheap. 

The frame- regardless of what it is made of- is not the focus.  Thus- I don't get the wooden frame argument.  I understand *why* it is a talking point- It is a sales pitch platform.  But if you over-engineer the shell you don't have to over-engineer the frame. 

After touring many manufacturing facilities and currently working for one, I really see how the sales side is born from covering the flaws of the construction process.  I always discuss with any potential client, when they note the frame, that 1.  My brand uses 1"x4" frames and has never had a frame warranty issue and 2.  I don't know of any manufacturer that has had a frame warranty issue, if the manufacturer is an upper-tier brand.  It goes back to shell construction.  You're far more likely to develop a shell issue that is born out of poor shell quality and construction of the shell, in terms of blistering or cracking, than to run into an issue from the frame.

But I am always interested in other perspectives and I hope this didn't sound snotty or snarky.  Was just trying to further clarify.

[Sam]

But I am always interested in other perspectives and I hope this didn't sound snotty or snarky.  Was just trying to further clarify.

Not at all!  You always provide thoughtful, insightful responses.  I just really enjoy debating this stuff and I agree with everything you posted here.  We tend to get caught in the weeds with construction methods and materials in this industry and I actually find myself telling customers to avoid that.  If you stick with a reputable brand, it doesn't really matter how the frame and shell are built.  They are the least likely things to fail on a good hot tub.  I was just pointing out that I see hundreds of wood spas falling apart every year.  You're right that they probably are mostly 15+ years old.  I don't pay specific attention, I just see them coming back with our delivery crews then going to the dump.