Thank you for this forum; hoping I can get input too

[karismom]

Hi everyone. I've spent quite a bit of time reading this forum, and I am grateful for the information and advice I've read. It has helped immensely.

I'm hoping that I can get specific info to my situation from all of you experts. I don't want to make a mistake on this.

I am a single professional mom to my daughter who is 17 years old and lives with me full-time. She has a somewhat severe case of Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome; something which often is associated with Ehlers-Danlos). Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS) is a relatively rare (at least, her type is) genetic disorder which affects all of the connective tissue in the body and basically disintegrates it, which leads to severe joint problems (many dislocations, bone breaks, etc). It also is associated with heart conditions because it can damage valves. Basically it affect every part of the body because connective tissue is everywhere.

Anyway, she is doing relatively well - has some bad days and some bad periods where she has to use a wheelchair but she hasn't had to do that in several weeks. And it always waxes and wanes, although she is always in joint pain.

Because of that I feel like she might benefit from a hot tub. I am wondering if any of you have any advice for something like that.

I plan to put it in my screened-in porch. We live in Kentucky (which I used to think was the south, but after all this cold weather and snow I'm starting to wonder....). So it will be exposed/used to very hot weather in the summer, and potentially freezing weather, ice, and snow for extended periods during winter.

Originally I was planning on purchasing a Nordic Retreat. It has good reviews, etc. However, I'm re-thinking this, as I don't really want a 110 unit and they will have to special order a 220 unit (Retreat SE). Also, we wet tested it and even with just the two of us, it doesn't seem all that big. I would like for Kari to be able to use it with her friends too.

I have since started studying about Bullfrog spas. I like some of the higher-end ones that seem to directly focus therapy on certain parts of the body. Is this really a 'thing'? I like the X8, even though it's probably bigger than we would usually need.

Cost is really not that huge of an issue, although overall I want to get a good deal. If I'm going to do this, I want to do it right, and I'm not sure the Nordic Retreat is optimal. I just don't know. I want 220 and I want some bells and whistles (eg, exterior and interior lights) and I want a good number of quality jets.

I am also planning to get an outdoor flat screen TV for that outdoor screened-in porch.

This is a large, relatively high-end house of about 4000 square feet and five bedrooms. I may move from here in 1-2 years, but it's more likely that I will be here for the next 6 years or so. Either way, I think it will fit in with what people like in a house of this type.

The local dealer here sells the following: Nordic, Bullfrog, HotSpring, Artesian, Bahama Spas, Signature, and Endless Pools. If anyone can tell me if they think I should also consider a particular brand/model for our needs, please chime in.... I would really appreciate it.

Also I'm a bit worried that there are threads on this forum alluding to problems with Bullfrog hot tubs.

Thank you in advance!

[wmccall]

Welcome to the forum!  As a professional with a child with a very specific medical condition, I'm sure you are well informed enough not to put too much merit on what you hear on the internet!  That aside, this is a pretty good forum with lots of caring people. I'll  have to do a little reading on those conditions.  Is there a  forum for caretakers of those conditions?  Anyone there have a hottub? My first, non-informed thoughts are around jet strength. Many people, like me want maximum strength jets, but with a conditions that lists dislocations as a symptom, maybe that isn't your first priority.   A screened in porch sounds good. My first thought was a person like your daughter will want quick easy access without having to walk a long way in inclement weather.

My next uninformed thought, wll your daughter use the tub by herself much? A good quality cover lifter with hydraulic assist might be helpful.

[wmccall]

"Also I'm a bit worried that there are threads on this forum alluding to problems with Bullfrog hot tubs."

Let me start by saying, I am a hot tub owner, not affiliated with any hot tub manufacturer. I've owned a Dynasty, I now own a Sundance, I almost bought a Hot Springs.   Bullfrog was not in my area when I last bought.  I've seen lots of satisfied users here. I've also seen bad review on almost every manufacturer as well.  The Bullfrog sales people here seem pretty straight forward and helpful, feel free to use them.

[castletonia]

Of the brands you listed, Artesian, Bullfrog, and Hot Spring (in alphabetical order) are all quality brands.  I sell Hot Spring and am biased towards that brand, but as long as you are looking at a quality manufacturer and have a reputable dealer supporting you, I would not let a handful of bad reviews on this site discourage you.  Every brand has had some issue at some point.  How they respond and your dealer responds is what is most important.

Additionally, I would also add Caldera, Dimension 1, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance to your list if you have them available locally.

As for focused therapy, yes. it is technically a thing.  Usually, on your higher end units from the better brands, you will get seats with larger more therapeutic jets an or seats that focus on a specific area of the back (upper, lower, interior, neck, etc)

[Spatech_tuo]

Artesian, BF and Hot Springs are 3 very good brands. Not all dealers haves 3 high end options like this but if this dealer seems really reputable I'm not sure you really need to venture out further but if so Castletonia listed other good options.

[karismom]

Wow, thank you guys so much. I'm humbled that you would give your time to help me, a person on the internet you don't even know. But I appreciate it so much.

Yes, I am a physician, so that helps me deal with all of this. I hadn't thought about the possibility of the jets causing subluxations or dislocations. She dislocates all the time for almost no reason, particularly her upper body (shoulders, elbows, fingers). She can correct it herself now (ouch....). That is something to think about. For her it's less of a problem for her lower body.

I just keep thinking that, on the days when she wakes up and can't walk, the tub might help her. And maybe ongoing, used regularly, it might lessen the pain. She has to do a lot of occupational and physical therapy and those evenings are hell, too.

Unfortunately, some of the brands mentioned are not locally available to me (100+ miles away at least). Those include Caldera, Dimension 1, Jacuzzi, Maquis, Sundance. To be honest, after a lot of research earlier tonight I've fallen in love (on the screen, at least) with the BF A8D. Two lounges. Love the five customizable JetPaks. Love everything about it. Except the price, lol.

It's kind of hard to find prices for these online (why is that???), but I'm guessing that with the cover lift, steps, ozone, etc that would set me back about $14k.

On the other hand, I became aware of someone who has a Nordic Retreat MS, circa 2014, barely used that he is selling because he is moving. It's in perfect condition. It's also 110 (not something I wanted, but it will save me a grand in electrician costs) and just the basic package. Not even the cover lift. Although it comes with steps and chemicals.

I got a quote and it will cost me $600 to move it from where it is to my screened-in porch. He's asking $3k for it, which to me is way too steep given that I can get a new one with warranty, delivered/set up and serviced for just under $5k before any negotiations. So if he comes WAY down, that might be a possibility. Otherwise I would rather pay the extra fifteen hundred bucks and get a new one. Except I wouldn't -- I would pay $14k and get the A8D. Because that's just how I roll.

First-world problems... they get ya every time.

[wmccall]

Prices are hard to find online and not much easier in the store    Most stores list an MSRP, which to me translates to whatever we think we can get for it.    My first hottub purchase was stressful, but the 2nd time I was more relaxed.  Even if you have a favorite, visit multiple places, let the sales guy know you have looked at a few places and that you are a serious buyer. Don't be afraid to leave and come back a 2nd and 3rd time and be aware there is always a "today only" price.

[karismom]

Great advice, thank you. Especially for me, because patience isn't normally one of my virtues and I have to work at it.

Another quick question if you don't mind. I probably already know the answer to this, but I'm wondering what all of you think about the following brands: Master Spa, Hot Springs (that one I know about), Four Winds, and Balboa. The reason I'm asking is that there is a hot tub refurbisher guy on Craigslist who has tubs listed from these 4 brands for what look like decent prices, with features that are more than what is available on the Nordic I'm looking at. Refurbished, work great, free delivery, etc. But, getting information from him is like pulling teeth. I had to ask him several times just to get the manufacturer names.

[mjb]

The Nordic Retreat is also available in their Modern Series which can be operated in either 110v or 220v.
Your dealer can configure the hot tub at or before delivery ( or even later down the road ) to your preference.  Hope this helps.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Great advice, thank you. Especially for me, because patience isn't normally one of my virtues and I have to work at it.

Another quick question if you don't mind. I probably already know the answer to this, but I'm wondering what all of you think about the following brands: Master Spa, Hot Springs (that one I know about), Four Winds, and Balboa. The reason I'm asking is that there is a hot tub refurbisher guy on Craigslist who has tubs listed from these 4 brands for what look like decent prices, with features that are more than what is available on the Nordic I'm looking at. Refurbished, work great, free delivery, etc. But, getting information from him is like pulling teeth. I had to ask him several times just to get the manufacturer names.

  Master spa I would avoid.    Hot springs yes!  Four Winds never heard of them, and Balboa is an equipment manufacture, I don't believe they build a complete spa for retail..

 Refurbished spa's are good if your on a budget, but you get little to no warranty on it, so a year or two your on your own if it breaks. 

 To me from what I have read from you, you like the high end like the A8D which is a great spa I sell quite a few of them.  If I were you knowing what I know, I would be looking at a top end spa like some mentioned here. in the 8 to 10,000 range.   That will get you a nice well built spa with a good warranty without going into the 13 to 14,000 range.  Providing the dealer is a good dealer, a spa is only as good as the dealer that will take care of you.   You can spend 15 grand on a spa, but if the dealer doesn't take care of you, it doesn't matter what it cost.

 Pick a couple out that is in your area, wet test if you are comfortable with that.  And feel free to report back here if you have questions.   Good luck in your search! 

[karismom]

Thanks for the information! I am looking at a barely used (October 2017) Retreat... must be the Modern Series as mentioned in the post below because it can use both 110 and 220. $3700 plus cost of moving it. Might as well buy it new.

Also looking at one from Mister Refurbisher mute guy tomorrow afternoon (the one pictured below). To my uneducated guess, this looks like it might be from the Artesian Island line, but I asked him and got no answer. He did tell me it had lights that change color, LOL. Can anyone tell what this is and how old it might be?

To your point Jim about the dealer, I'm going to look at the dealers this weekend and see what I can find in the $10k range. $14k is just too steep right now.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

  It could be an Artesian, if so the topside will say artesian on it.   I would just be leery of refurbished spa's unless from a spa dealer that would back up with a decent warranty.   

[Tman122]

  It could be an Artesian, if so the topside will say artesian on it.   I would just be leery of refurbished spa's unless from a spa dealer that would back up with a decent warranty.

That's not fair Jim. I have refurbished many tubs and sold at a very reasonable price. If it is done right it can be a great deal for a first tub. But that has to be investigated.

Karismom, who is this guy? Is this all he does? Will he back it up for 90 days? But first what brand/model is it, and how old is it? How much does he want for it?

[Sam]

Great advice, thank you. Especially for me, because patience isn't normally one of my virtues and I have to work at it.

Another quick question if you don't mind. I probably already know the answer to this, but I'm wondering what all of you think about the following brands: Master Spa, Hot Springs (that one I know about), Four Winds, and Balboa. The reason I'm asking is that there is a hot tub refurbisher guy on Craigslist who has tubs listed from these 4 brands for what look like decent prices, with features that are more than what is available on the Nordic I'm looking at. Refurbished, work great, free delivery, etc. But, getting information from him is like pulling teeth. I had to ask him several times just to get the manufacturer names.

Skip the master and the four winds.  Balboa doesn't make hot tubs, they make the equipment like pumps, heaters, jets, control panels.  They make great parts but the hot tub is probably a generic spa with Balboa components.

[karismom]

I really don't know who he is. He has local ads up on craigslist with some refurbished tubs and a moving/setup service for hot tubs. I've only talked to him by text and he says very little, so I won't know more until I see it tomorrow. All he says is that it's a "beautiful island tub" with many jets which works perfectly. I asked him manufacture and age and he didn't answer. He wants $3500 which includes moving and setup.