Author Topic: Electrical question (Read 3770 times)

blackjackz · « **on:** March 03, 2018, 12:56:53 pm »

Recently got rid of an old hot tub that was here when we moved in. Was looking at replacing with a new one.

I noticed something about the electrical when I was removing the old one. The electrical was wired directly from the outside meter to the GFCI near the tub site. I had always assumed that the power came from the panel inside the house.

Is this wrong? Something I will need to fix if I get a new tub?

Thanks.

Hot Tub Forum · « **on:** March 03, 2018, 12:56:53 pm »

Jacuzzi Jim · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2018, 05:30:18 pm »

I think it is fine.

Tman122 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2018, 06:28:07 am »

Quote from: blackjackz on March 03, 2018, 12:56:53 pm

Recently got rid of an old hot tub that was here when we moved in. Was looking at replacing with a new one.

I noticed something about the electrical when I was removing the old one. The electrical was wired directly from the outside meter to the GFCI near the tub site. I had always assumed that the power came from the panel inside the house.

Is this wrong? Something I will need to fix if I get a new tub?

Thanks.

My garage supply comes directly from the meter. I think it is fine also.

blackjackz · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2018, 11:59:34 am »

Thanks for the info. Was hoping to keep the hookup simple when I get the new tub. Old one was already 4 wire, so should be easy.

bud16415 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 05, 2018, 10:12:15 am »

I�m going to vote no.

You are allowed to have more than one main panel off of one service / meter. Generally what you see connecting a hot tub is a sub panel. In it is the GFCI breaker etc. The line from the meter to that device and the device itself need a way to be disconnected if it requires work and also need overload protection.

Coming straight off the meter the only way you could work on the GFCI would be to pull the meter. If something malfunctioned in the GFCI or the wire leading to it the current potential (Amps) would be whatever was down stream on the pole protecting the transformer for your neighborhood.

Code would allow it I think if it was done like a garage where there was a complete other Main panel installed as a second main, but not just a sub panel without disconnects for the whole panel. You should check with a pro for advice on your locality.

The reason it was done that way was because your service panel for your house was likely undersized or filled up and not able to handle 50a more load.

It did work and it would still work but when it comes to electrical it is best to be 100% sure and safe.

flava flav · « **Reply #5 on:** March 06, 2018, 02:59:02 pm »

No way....The wires from the panel to the spa GFCI need circuit breaker protection, directly wiring from the meter does not accommodate this. In this case there is no panel, how do you protect the wires if they run directly from the meter, it can't be done. Rewire. Good luck

bud16415 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 06, 2018, 05:05:58 pm »

Blackjackz hasn�t been back in a few days after receiving some bad or incomplete information. I�m hoping he doesn�t attempt attaching the new tub into this non protected sub panel. When he is in there wiring it he will have no way other than the GFCI breaker to kill the power and then he will only be killing the power to one side of the device leaving the input side hot. Worse is that side having no over current protection if he were to say get a short going with a screwdriver it wouldn�t pop anything upstream. He has potential there the same as the house service 1000 amps maybe or more and it would arc and weld until the screwdriver burnt / melted in two.

If he comes back I would ask him to show us a photo of both ends of this run, exiting the meter and the GFCI end. At best he will show us it was done correctly and the box that supplies the GFCI is actually a second main panel and the run between the two is a proper service entrance. To do this the power company had to have been called to break the seal and open the meter. They would then replace the meter and put a new seal on the meter. If there is no seal on the meter he better call the power company right away and explain this was all like this when I bought the place. Get it straightened out because no one wants them finding it on their own and thinking theft of services etc.

I help out as a mod/admin on a home improvement forum it�s an ongoing issue with advice giving on electrical issues. I am not a pro and normally defer to the pros we have on the site to answer questions exactly to code. We are very concerned on that site to take a proactive stance on electrical safety. Whenever we are not sure and no one is stepping up to answer along with giving your thoughts we should also ask then to please see a pro.

The last thing I ever want to hear is someone getting hurt in or working on his or her tub.

blackjackz · « **Reply #7 on:** March 06, 2018, 05:24:58 pm »

I'm back.

First off, thanks for the comments. Just to clarify, I will not be doing any of it. A real electrician will be.

And as requested, attached are pics of the meter and GFCI. the wire on the left of the meter is going to the GFCI.

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii611/blackjackz2000/meter2_zpsetdycrfi.jpg
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii611/blackjackz2000/meter2_zpsetdycrfi.jpg

Tman122 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 06, 2018, 05:40:34 pm »

Quote from: blackjackz on March 06, 2018, 05:24:58 pm

I'm back.

First off, thanks for the comments. Just to clarify, I will not be doing any of it. A real electrician will be.

And as requested, attached are pics of the meter and GFCI. the wire on the left of the meter is going to the GFCI.

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii611/blackjackz2000/meter2_zpsetdycrfi.jpg
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii611/blackjackz2000/meter2_zpsetdycrfi.jpg

I also assumed there was a GFCI disconnect hooked to the meter and the tub was hooked to that. My garage is hooked to the meter through a disconnect and breaker panel. Just so everyone can cool off.

bud16415 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2018, 05:42:13 pm »

I think we might have the same photo twice. And could you post a picture of your main panel in the house with the door open.

blackjackz · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2018, 06:01:48 pm »

Sorry about that.

Outside:

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii611/blackjackz2000/Outside/GFCI_zpsz53f0s87.jpg

And inside panel:

http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii611/blackjackz2000/Panel/Panel_zpspdvfcbdr.jpg

bud16415 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 06, 2018, 07:55:56 pm »

Just my opinion but as you know I don�t like the setup for the tub. The breaker for the tub is long past its useful life span and with fixing the electrical problem with the new tub you will be looking at the reason the last one was done the way it was. Your main panel in the house is original to the house I�m thinking and is really outdated as well 60 years maybe. If it were mine I would do a new 150 or 200 amp panel at the same time as the tub and bring everything into the 21st century. Are your outlets the type that have 3 prongs or two?

flava flav · « **Reply #12 on:** March 06, 2018, 08:49:18 pm »

Safety first. A new panel should be installed to current code with ample amp service designed to meet the electric needs of the house. Get a permit, licensed electrician etc.

Hot Tub Forum · « **Reply #12 on:** March 06, 2018, 08:49:18 pm »

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