Hot Tub Questions

[april_wi]

Hello!

We are searching for our first hot tub. We have gone to 3 different places and looked at Hot Springs, Marquis, VitaSpa, and Viking. The salesperson that sells VitaSpa and Viking, highly recommended the VitaSpa due to the perimeter insulation and talked about the problems with foam insulation and trying to find leaks. But the other two salespeople we spoke with very highly recommended the Marquis and Hot Springs foam insulation, especially being in Wisconsin.

My husband was disappointed the Marquis does not have a circ pump and the salesperson's response to that was that they break a lot and he has fixed a lot of them.

I would love to hear any input you can give as we have searched online and were surprised about the lack of information. We are willing to spend $10,000-$13,000 if its likely to be better quality and last 15-20 years with little problems and the VitaSpa was less, so wondering if they are not as high quality or if you are just paying for the name brand with the other brands.

Thanks!
April

[Tman122]

Hello!

We are searching for our first hot tub. We have gone to 3 different places and looked at Hot Springs, Marquis, VitaSpa, and Viking. The salesperson that sells VitaSpa and Viking, highly recommended the VitaSpa due to the perimeter insulation and talked about the problems with foam insulation and trying to find leaks. But the other two salespeople we spoke with very highly recommended the Marquis and Hot Springs foam insulation, especially being in Wisconsin.

My husband was disappointed the Marquis does not have a circ pump and the salesperson's response to that was that they break a lot and he has fixed a lot of them.

I would love to hear any input you can give as we have searched online and were surprised about the lack of information. We are willing to spend $10,000-$13,000 if its likely to be better quality and last 15-20 years with little problems and the VitaSpa was less, so wondering if they are not as high quality or if you are just paying for the name brand with the other brands.

Thanks!
April

If someone is selling less insulation because of possible leaks, walk away.

Circ pump moves less water than a jet pump and yes, they are another thing to break. I wouldn't decide based on a circ pump or not.

Name brand or not. Yes kinda true but Marquis and Hot Springs are in the top 5 in my opinion. Vita not top 5. Viking more of a value brand. Not that Vita and Viking are bad just not the same as Marquis or Hot Springs as far as design, dependability, longevity and energy efficiency.

[Livefast]

I really disagree with your comment about selling less insulation as more. How do you figure that filling a tub right up is any better then 1/4 full is? Have ever looked at the Royal value factor?? You really gain no more. Except for when it comes time to fix it or when the power goes out for 3 days.  Maybe you don't look at your tub for a week.......oh no go tripped full foam tub motors (plumbing) is exposed to -25c  that adds up to a lot of expense in fixing that would not happen in perimeter insulated Tubs. 

[danthespaman316]

Yes it's easier to find leaks without expanding poly foam insulation caked all over your shell and plumbing. It's a good thing too, because a tub with nothing but a reflective wrap and water lines just hanging in the air is far more likely to leak. Not only does foam insulate better than a wrap, it secures your lines and keeps them from jostling and torquing every time you kick on the pumps. Foam insulation, preferably fully foamed, is the only way to go.

Because the circ pump draw less wattage and usually run your heat cycles, tubs with circ pumps will have a slightly lower electrical cost than a unit which relies on a larger 2 speed jet pump to heat the tub. Just something to think about. 

As Tman stated, both HS and Marquis are quality tubs that will give you years of enjoyment. I'd boil it down to wet testing and which dealer you feel most comfortable with. Good luck.

[Tman122]

I really disagree with your comment about selling less insulation as more. How do you figure that filling a tub right up is any better then 1/4 full is? Have ever looked at the Royal value factor?? You really gain no more. Except for when it comes time to fix it or when the power goes out for 3 days.  Maybe you don't look at your tub for a week.......oh no go tripped full foam tub motors (plumbing) is exposed to -25c  that adds up to a lot of expense in fixing that would not happen in perimeter insulated Tubs.

Add up the extra expense in electricity every month to run a perimeter insulated tub and is the extra expense to fix a leak IF it happens in a fully insulated tub really more?

If it's below 0 (-18c) and the power goes out for three days drain your tub and worry about your house and family. I've lived in Northern Minnesota for 60 years and never seen the power go out during that kinda cold for more than a few hours. And only once or twice. And if it's only a few hours leave your tub alone. That's a bad argument.

Arctic does perimeter insulation closer to right than anyone.

[bud16415]

Hello!

We are searching for our first hot tub. We have gone to 3 different places and looked at Hot Springs, Marquis, VitaSpa, and Viking. The salesperson that sells VitaSpa and Viking, highly recommended the VitaSpa due to the perimeter insulation and talked about the problems with foam insulation and trying to find leaks. But the other two salespeople we spoke with very highly recommended the Marquis and Hot Springs foam insulation, especially being in Wisconsin.

My husband was disappointed the Marquis does not have a circ pump and the salesperson's response to that was that they break a lot and he has fixed a lot of them.

I would love to hear any input you can give as we have searched online and were surprised about the lack of information. We are willing to spend $10,000-$13,000 if its likely to be better quality and last 15-20 years with little problems and the VitaSpa was less, so wondering if they are not as high quality or if you are just paying for the name brand with the other brands.

Thanks!
April

 We bought our Caldera Geneva for all the reasons the reasons you and your husband are thinking about and also because it fit our needs well. Caldara tubs are made by Watkins and that is also the parent company of Hot Springs. So they are sister product and IMO are close in quality and price. They are built somewhat different but both will stand up to a northern winter. We live on the northern most spot in PA, on lake Erie and get the same artic winters you do and we were concerned about cold weather and dependability.

Caldera uses a high density packed in fiber insulation called fiber-cor it is easily removed in the field and replaced if repairs are needed and has fantastic insulation properties. The other thing they do is put the heater on a separate GFCI breaker than the tub. If your heater fails the tub alerts you and the circulation pumps sparingly use the heated water in the tub over a few days even to keep the tub from freezing up. These two features we liked enough and with all things equal in other regards we made our selection.

You won’t go wrong with any of the top tier tubs in the 10k-13k range IMO. Each have their own set of things you might like better. Of the 4 you have to choose from I agree with the others HS or Marquis would be what I would look at.       

[castletonia]

Nothing wrong with Vita, but they are not on the same level of quality that Marquis and Hot Spring are.  Also, from the standpoint of a dealer, Vita, who is owned by Maax Spas, is not going to provide the same high level of dealer support that Hot Spring and Marquis do.  The company i used to work for sold Marquis and Marquis is a top tier product and company support was great.  I also dealt with Maax once they took over LA Spas and they were a pain to deal with.  Tech support was not the most knowledgeable and parts orders taking days to process before shipping.

I now sell Hot Spring and Caldera, in Appleton, Wisconsin, so curious as to what part of Wisconsin you are in.  In regards to circulation pump vs not, there are pros and cons.  Yes, circulation pumps probably do have a slightly higher failure rate because they run 24/7 but they are quieter, more energy efficient, ozone works better with them, and in my opinion water quality is better with.

Either way, both Marquis and Hot Spring are great brands and with the amount you said your comfortable spending, I would cross Vita/Maax off my list.  What models from Hot Spring and Marquis are you looking at?

[april_wi]

Thanks everyone!

I think we are just about ready to cross the Vita ones off the list.  Does anyone have any examples of what in particular would be cheaper/lower quality on the Vita?  Is the shell thinner?  Does it matter?  My husband was thinking of checking for insulation differences with an infrared camera.

For Marquis, we are looking probably at one of the V94s or the Show, Epic, or Euphoria.

For Hot Spring, not so sure between the standard Highlife line and the Highlife NXT.

I forsee wet tests in the future.

About the only other dealers near by Madison,WI is Bullfrog and Lazyboy.  Any thoughts on those?

[Thisismyname]

Definitely give Bullfrog a try.  We've tested almost all the major brands and it's our favorite.....about to place an order this weekend on an A8

[bradleyabell]

Definitely give Bullfrog a try.  We've tested almost all the major brands and it's our favorite.....about to place an order this weekend on an A8

We also just placed an order for a Bullfrog...We went with the X8L.

[castletonia]

You have a good Marquis / Bullfrog dealer in Patio Pleasures.  I don't personally know anyone at Bachmann Pools & Spas which is your Hot Spring dealer, but I have heard pretty good things about them too. 

There is really not just one thing that makes a Vita less of a spa.  It comes down to a lot of things, some that you can see and some that you cannot.  Look at the fit and finish from the exterior, the lack of insulation, the frame construction (pretty sure they are steel now), the quality of the components used, engineering of the plumbing design, how they support their dealers.  Like I said earlier, Vita is a fine spa if the price is right and their quality and past reputation along with the reputation of their parent company, Maax, suggests mid tier.  Hot

Hot Spring and Marquis have years of manufacturing premium quality spas with some of the best reputations in the industry.  Within the last 5-6 years Bullfrog has become a much bigger player and many dealers speak highly of them as a company and they have a unique story with the jet packs.

Wet test the spas you are interested in and find the dealer that is right for you.  The Epic and Euphoria are great spas.  Never been in a Show.  I have sat in the V94 but not V94L.  Overall, I thought the therapy was nice but I liked the comfort more in the Marquis Signature.  I now sell Hot Spring and Caldera and feel that the Highlife / NXT from Hot Spring and the Utopia from Caldera are every bit as a good, if not better than what Marquis is putting out there.  The Vector21 spas are more comparable to the Limelight from Hot Spring and Paradise from Caldera.  What you like may be different than what I like which is why the wet test is so important. 

[april_wi]

Thanks for all the advise everyone.

We ended up wet testing a VitaSpa, Marquis Epic, Hot Spring Envoy, and Bullfrog A8.

The VitaSpa just had nothing special about the jets and the Epic was nice, but the seat heights didn't work for both of us.

So we are down to the Bullfrog and Hot Spring.  The A8 feels roomy, we could move the jetpacks around to fit each of us in the different seat heights, and the jets themselves are very nice (of the different packs we tried).  The Hot Spring was also very nice overall, but we really liked to moto massage seat.  So much so, that we actually are leaning more toward the Grandee (which has two of them).  They don't have a Grandee filled though, so a little worried that it wouldn't feel the same as.

For pricing:

The A8 is $13,399 for spa, cover, lifter, chem, but no Circ pump.  + $800 rebate
The regular Grandee is also $13,399, but would need to goto the NXT line to get away from the wood base and frame.

Any other things to think about between those modules?  Hot Spring is supposed to have a sale in a couple weeks, but not sure how much off that may be.  Any Ideas?  The Bullfrog rebate only goes to 9/4.  Is that pretty rare for them?

Also, the Bullfrog dealer about 150 miles away is $1,400 less, but then we are pretty much on our own for pickup, setup, and warranty issues.

[Spatech_tuo]

"to get away from the wood base and frame"

A base pan is certainly nice as is the plastic frame but a wood frame/bottom in most cases does the job just fine as long as you're not in an area where the ground is always wet.

[d00nut]

For pricing:

The A8 is $13,399 for spa, cover, lifter, chem, but no Circ pump.  + $800 rebate
The regular Grandee is also $13,399, but would need to goto the NXT line to get away from the wood base and frame.

Any other things to think about between those modules?  Hot Spring is supposed to have a sale in a couple weeks, but not sure how much off that may be.  Any Ideas?  The Bullfrog rebate only goes to 9/4.  Is that pretty rare for them?

Also, the Bullfrog dealer about 150 miles away is $1,400 less, but then we are pretty much on our own for pickup, setup, and warranty issues.

The Bullfrog dealer is selling for a lot less because they will never see or deal with you again (That would be a huge concern if you ever need warranty.)

As for the Bullfrog quote you got, you can easily have them add the circ pump.  I never sell a A Series without one personally (everything I stock has one except for the 5L models.)  If they are charging you extra for one, I would say the absolute tops you would pay for it is probably $500.

I normally say the only reason to go with the NXT is look, as the wood wouldn't scare me all that much (owned a HSS Vanguard in NH for a few years, no problems.)  If you want the NXT, add $1000-$1500 depending on the dealer.  The NXT lighting on the outside is actually the thing I like the most on mine, so that is outstanding there.

Hot Spring will have a rebate here in September, pretty much identical to Bullfrogs.  Know that prices vary as well from dealer to dealer, I'd ask about that now

[bradleyabell]

If you want to save some $$$$...Give the Bullfrog X series a try...The X8 is very roomy.  The only major difference is that it does not have the jet packs, but we thought that was not worth it as we wouldn't really move them around and was kinda tacky.  Plus the X8 is WELL under 10k, but almost everything else is identical to the other Bullfrog spas.