Salt Water System?

[soccer17]

Sorry as I know this topic has probably been covered at great lengths but I can't figure out how to search and get the most recent results.

My wife wants salt water system and Hot Springs dealer advising us in that direction.  The Marquis dealer (sales rep was VERY new) was advising that salt water will shorten the life of the system as it is corrosive.

We like the idea that we wouldn't need to drain the tub as frequently with a salt water system.

Any guidance and experience you have is appreciated.

Thank You.

[bud16415]

The level of salt in a tub that uses the salt to generate chlorine is less than the salt level in a human tear. I have a friend that switched his tub to salt system (after market) and couldn’t be happier. The unit he bought is called a saltron-mini google that and there is a lot of information on how a salt generator works. I personally don’t think the salt will harm your tub, but I have been told the same by my dealer when I told them I thought about switching over.

My friends water is very nice and leaves you feeling silky smooth when you get out. It just makes chlorine and it makes it at a really slow pace unlike dosing heavy and then waiting a day to dose again. The unit he has is adjustable with timers and such.

I like the idea of salt a lot but haven’t switched yet.   

[mooveebuff]

Now granted, I don't even have a hot tub yet, but I do have a saltwater pool.  I read a heard a lot of things about that too; "It'll kill all your plants if you backwash!"  "It'll destroy your deck!'  "It'll destroy your equipment!"  I even read somewhere that it'll have a negative effect on any portions of your house that are near the pool.  I can tell you that all of that is a bunch of garbage.  I think part of the problem is that people hear "saltwater" and they think of the ocean and it's corrosive effects.  The salt levels in a salt chlorinated pool are arouns ~3000 PPM.  The salt levels in the ocean are around ~35,000 PPM.  So yeah, there may be some minimal effects of saltwater chlorinators over a very long period, but I've had my system going on six years, with no issues whatsoever with corrosion.

However, with a spa/hot tub I would have two concerns. 

1.) With all the seals, O-rings, and metal parts on the jets, there may be more cause for concern about corrosion....I just don't know how concerning it would be, so I won't get into that.

2.) My biggest concern would be whether or not the system would be able to produce enough chlorine on it's own to properly sanitize a spa.  Between the temperature differences and bather load (3-4 people in 400 gallons of water versus 3-4 people in a pool with 15,000+ gallons of water), I would think there would be heavier demands on a spa chlorinator to produce.  I may be totally wrong, but I would think there would still be a need to add chlorine to supplement what the salt system generates. 

I'm very curious to read other responses on this topic.  I absolutely love the salt generator on my pool, but I'm still researching to see whether or not it's a good option for a spa.

[bud16415]

My friend uses his spa daily he and his wife and they have their unit set to run one hour twice a day. His chlorine level is right around 2PPM at all time. He says when he has company in the tub when he gets out he bumps it for a one time double cycle. Salt / Chlorine is more like Clorox it has no stabilizer and he claims none is required as the dosing is more level at twice per day. He has been using it for 4 years and hasn’t had any seal failures. He changes water twice per year and it looks very good when he is ready to drain it.

With a pool the big thing is the pool is cool and massive as you mentioned and far more forgiving. What I notice you would never notice in a pool is when say a lady uses the spa that has used a body lotion, I get a huge spike where in a pool it would be the smallest bleep.  So if you have a spa that gets a lot of mixed usage you have to be on your toes. Every time I have ever had water issues it was always after a party where the usage went way up with a bunch of people that have no idea about body products and laundry soaps. Now after a questionable day I just do a heavy duty shock.

[danthespaman316]

We sell 1 brand that offer salt, but you'd have to twist my arm pretty hard get me to sell it to you. Corrosion is a concern, but it's certainly not the main issue as it would take 5+ years to really notice it's ramifications. Salt has been around for 20-30 years and many of your more recognizable companies have offered it at one point in time. Many of those companies no longer offer it. In all that time they still can't produce a cell that lasts longer than 2 years which is ironically around the time that the warranty expires. So figure $300 every 2 years for a new cell, plus install on top of the initial cost of the upgrade and necessary chems. You also have to deal with the learning curve that is dialing in your system and and maintaining salt levels which is not as easy as most sales people make it seem. If you stack too many bodies in a tub for a party and don't compensate for all the extra gunk that will be sloshing around in your water, your system can go south in a hurry. Infrequent or sporadic use is something that needs to be monitored closely.

Bottom line, the HS guy wants to sell it to you because they offer it. The Marquis guy advises against it because they don't offer it. But, just because the newbie at Marquis doesn't know why he's right, doesn't make him wrong. There have been a lot of sanitizer advancements over the last few decades and I just don't see the need for spending $1500 upfront + $300-400/year in chems and parts to do what a $300-400/year chem system with ozone or UV can do equally well given the right setup.

Ask to see a system manual for the salt unit if you really want to see whether or not it's worth it. If it's sounds convoluted and difficult, just remember that they write those things in as simple of terms as they possibly can. If it turns out that you're still on the fence, cross your fingers, get the salt and make the wife happy.

Good luck either way.

[VictoryRider]

Here are some of my thoughts on salt systems:

1. The biggest issues I have seen with them are the customers not following the instructions. A lot of people who spend the extra money on a salt system will think it is a fix all cure all and forget about the pH, alk, hardness... It makes sense why many would think this, you spend all this extra money on a system so that equates to less work to take care of the spa in their end. Otherwise why spend all that money and still have to pretty much do the same amount of work.

2. Cost, the cells need maintenance and replacement every few years. This can add up quick.

3. Their is a system that most brands offer than do what a salt system does and their no cells to replace or maintain. The Frog system, it does basically the same thing, keeps a residual of sanitizer in the water. No cells to clean or replace ever. Change your cartridges as needed.

[bud16415]

Salt systems built into a tub or something like the frog system have something in common. They lock you into buying the consumable product specific to your system over the bulk product or simple low cost product.

I have no skin in the game with this saltron-mini product. I don’t even have one and I only know one person that has one. It also has a cell that does the conversion and I’m told they go bad after a couple years if not cleaned. And in this case it is a DIY fix as you pull out a plug and snap a new one in to the tune of 100 bucks not 300 or 400 with a service call. Being as it is an external thing you throw in the tub, they tell you to once a month soak it in vinegar for a couple hours. My friend has been doing that for 3 or 4 years now and the cell works like new. If I was selling these or frog cartridges I wouldn’t want something inexpensive as an alternative.

It always seemed wasteful throwing out the plastic frog cartridge and I pried the top off one day. There is no reason you couldn’t buy a 5 pound bag and refill these things. They are just another version of a printer cartridge or a K-cup coffee. If you want the conveyance then you have to pay for it.

Maybe this was tried in the past but I never saw it on a hot tub. But how about a small tank you fill with Clorox that has a cap like the frog cartridge port. Then a dispensing pump you could set for time and amount. I’m having great luck with bleach and I tried the frog both bromine and @ease and also a floater dispenser.  There would be no aftermarket product though with bleach.     

[BullFrogSpasMN]

We love offering salt as an option, it is sold on about 60% of our tubs...Our Blu Fusion system has a full 3 year warranty to start and cells are rated for 4-6 years of usage and are under $500 (with tech install, cheaper if you are a a DIY'er) to replace....customers love it, much softer feeling water overall with less "build up" on your skin after using the spa, water lasts twice as long on average (average drain/refills go from every 3-4 moths to 6-7 months), no manually adding tablets/granular powder or constantly re-buying replacement frog cartridges, it also has a digital 'push button' adjustment of your sanitizer levels for when you go on vacation, have periods of low or conversely high usage.

I realize there are consumers that are skeptical and dealers range from "being iffy" on salt systems to flat out despising them and telling customers they will corrode the entire hot tub into dust and that's fine with me, different strokes for different folks. Bottom line is I've been selling salt for many years in hot tubs and in my experience the overall "satisfaction rating" on new hot tub owners that opted for the salt system is much higher than those using traditional chemicals.  Customers (especially with skin issues) are more likely to use their spas on a regular basis, also because we do a full onsite orientation I would easily say overall the system is much more easier to operate with much less 'bottles of stuff' customers are at least 50% less likely to be constantly calling in to the store with questions like...what does this product do? how long before we can get in it after adding this or that? why am I adding so many different chemicals to the spa/there are so many bottles to remember, or why is my water green? they are also more likely to brag to their friends/family/neighbors about their spa which is important for word of mouth and/or referrals.  At the end of the day it's your choice as the consumer/purchaser of the spa to decide how you want to treat the water and salt is just another option that has both positive and negatives just as every other option on the market, if you are truly interested in a salt system you just need someone who has a great deal of experience with ALL systems to thoroughly explain the pros/cons and complete overalls costs of each, worst thing you can do is take advice from someone on a forum who has simply "read an article" "has a buddy" "heard a story" regarding salt water because most of it is simply bad information. Good Luck!

[jordanomar23]

The salt water system will give you such a distinctive sensation for sure, it's a good choice if you want to feel a much greener hydrotherapy. Salt water tub is the best answer since you are not willing to drain the water frequently, you'll need to change the water twice a year which is much more convenient compared to the non salt water spa with 4 to 6 times water changing annually.
Keep in mind to use the sodium bromide instead of the sodium chloride, that kind of salt will not harm the environment so you can drain the water in your lawn safely.
Trust me, the salt water hot tub is always a much wiser idea to buy.

[Aero_Dave]

I'm very interested in the Blu Fusion saltwater system. I can't seem to find the actual installation instructions.
I'm just wondering how hard is it to install. If I buy this system, I plan to install myself.
Where is the best place to purchase this system?

Thanks,
Dave...

[bud16415]

Keep in mind as mentioned above the Blu Fusion is a sodium bromide tub and will take a more expensive salt. I have never seen one but the directions suggest cleaning the anode device by adding a descaler to the water. Maybe BullFrogSpas wil comment on that interval and the procedure. Is it done just before a water change etc?

The only one I have seen has the anode device just sitting in the tub and you take it out when using the tub. With it being a loose part it seemed easy to soak and clean. It uses the cheaper NaCl but produces chlorine not bromine. I don’t drain my spa on the yard normally but I don’t think that level of NaCl would harm grass, but I don’t know that as a fact.

I can’t find a lot of information on salt water tubs and how they interact with things like biofilm etc.

One question I had was what would happen if I just added salt to my tub like it had a salt gen unit and still used dichlor. Would I get the benefits of the softer feeling water as well? Could a person do that to get a feel for the salt water say before a water change to see if they like it?     

[hottubdan]

I see several responses that are about systems other than the ACE system for Hot Spring.  Short answer is that it works; your water will be softer, stay sanitized and you will have to drain less often.  How long the cell lasts will depend on how often you and your family use the tub.

It is not a money saver.  It is an experience enhancer.

And Frog, while good, is not a reasonable comparison.

[MarKee]

Local HotSpring dealer in our area charges $995 for the electrode replacement and that is the most common complaint, that the electrode goes out.  Whether it works or not, it seems like an expensive device to put on a hot tub, especially if you have to replace the electrode every 2 years or sooner.

[bud16415]

When we bought our Caldera Geneva we were aware of the Hot Springs Ace system option and considered it as we know someone with a salt pool and how nice that system worked for them. I passed on the Ace for the reasons mentioned above. I did get that it could be an experience enhancer and defiantly wasn’t going to be a cost saver. With factoring in the initial cost and the ongoing cost it seemed to pricey for the  experience enhancer.

When we got our tub with the inline Frog system I began to wonder if I shouldn’t have spent the money on the ACE. As I think most first time owners do I struggled with maintaining the water as nice as I wanted it. I knew at least a dozen people with hot tubs and they lead me to another dozen or more that they knew and I was asking everyone what method they used and tub they had. I got as many answers as the number of people I asked. No one had Ace but one friend had converted his tub to salt and told me he had every problem I was having and then some and couldn’t be happier with salt. The conversation then switched from sanitizing to experience enhancer. He was way more in favor of that than the sanitizing aspect of salt generating chlorine.

His aftermarket device cost under 200 bucks and the cell replacement was around 100. He has a 6 person tub about the same water capacity as ours and his usage was close to ours. It was a DIY install and didn’t connect into the tubs plumbing or wiring it just needed its own 120v GFCI outlet. I was very tempted but information I got from everyone else had my tub nicely under control and my dealer strongly warned against doing anything salt related. So I still haven’t.

But the experience enhancer part of it is still in the back of my mind. If I had to replace a cell every other year and it cost 100 bucks and I could do it in 10 minutes myself I wouldn’t mind that expense at all.

There is information and misinformation and everything in between out there when it comes to hot tubs and no way to tell the difference half the time. As an example I have one friend that has had a tub for 5 years daily use with kids and grandkids and when I asked him what he used he said I don’t know my wife takes care of it, all he knew was she put 26 drops of something in once a month and twice a year they changed the water. I saw their tub and it looks great no one has skin problems etc. I just rolled my eyes, but it is working fine for them.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Local HotSpring dealer in our area charges $995 for the electrode replacement and that is the most common complaint, that the electrode goes out.  Whether it works or not, it seems like an expensive device to put on a hot tub, especially if you have to replace the electrode every 2 years or sooner.

Expense can be an issue with the ACE, If Watkins would have had a more reliable cell built that could last 4-5 years they would sell thousands upon thousands more systems.  In their defense a bit, there are people out there who will spend money for convenience and lets not joke ourselves, there are A LOT of expensive upgrades in this industry...$500 lighting upgrades, $1,500+ on a spa stereo, $2,000 Smartop Covers, $8,000 Covana Covers, $1,500+ for an extra pump that creates bubbles, and on and on.  Like hottubdan mentioned the purpose of the system isn't too save money, it is too offer a better soaking experience/softer water/lower maintenance/less frequency between water changes.