Dazed&Confused,can I make a suggestion?.?

[bodguy]

Need Opinions FAST
« on: Posted by dazedand confused Jun 24th, 2004, 10:00am »  Quote:
 
Well, after weeks on this forum and others and countless hours of research, wet tests, etc, I am thinking about buying the following:  
  
Sundance Cameo  
Cover  
Chemicals  
SunLift  
SunGlow Multicolor Light  
SunZone CD Ozone  
Exterior Perimeter Lights  
Handi Step  
MicroClean Filter  
Drink Tray  
SunScents  
  
I have been quoted 7900 total.  I am asking 7500 total.  My budget was 7000 but I thought the dealer and I could or might split the difference.  
  
Any advice?    
  
Thanks

Good thing we all responded FAST! Watta joke and I feel foolish for being sucked into this charade too!

Steve

Ill say it again.....for $500 or 6.3% (average sales tax rate) of the purchase price your are tubless.  Just plain dumb............if your time is worth $10.00 per hour, I assume it is...you are losing money by continuing your research LOL

[dazedandconfused]

Bodguy,

The $7000 retail value is 'retail' value.  The manuf could put any price under 'retail' they like.  It is interesting though that they would advertise a retail that is roughly 1500 to 2000 less then what dealers are quoting!  Go figure!  It's a crock!

I am interested in invoice (cost from factory) value.  That is only the true number that buyers can use in their 'arsenal'.  Dealers do have costs - I am not stupid - but we need a baseline when comparing dealers quotes.  Otherwise, buyers have no idea of what is a fair value.  It's that simple.  For example, all HS dealers could collude and sell the vista for $10000 (for example) when the true cost is $5000 (for example).  Net, buyers were taken for $5k.  But since they colluded, buyers have no idea what was cost and were taken to the bank.

Dealers are in the business to make $$.  I am sure no one will argue that.  They do not care about buyers!  Its how much that that can add to the bottom line.

In a true competitive market, we would know all costs.  All dealers would be selling at or near the same cost.  Unfortunately, in the spa industry, dealers are getting buy with forms of monopoly and can charge whatever they like.  There is only 1 SD and 1 HS and I Jacuzzi on average per geographic area, how is that competitive?  

I should be an economics professor or better yet an attorney that would go after these manufs!

D/C

[ebirrane]

Wow.

If you can get your dealer to go that low good luck.  I doubt it because it could set a precedent.  All dealers I know go by word of mouth. I haven't seen any tv ads for any hot tub dealers in my area.  And if I hear you got a tub for $7k I am not going to pay 1 penny more and, in fact, want to pay a little less, when *I* go in.

That is why your dealer will not go that low. And if less profit means taking down the neon signs, firing the in-house spa technician, or only being able to afford your 14 year old nephew as a cashier then that makes you *less* competative against other markets.  

People who seek invoice for a luxury item are the exception, not the rule, and dealers that pander to them too much go under in a truly competative market. Your dealer is just being a good capitalist.

Every point you make about how you would *like* your world to be structured is a fancy bit of rationalization.

-Ed

[Brewman]

Bodguy,

(Much inane drivel chopped)

  - I am not stupid -
D/C

Wanna put that one to a vote?

[notafunguy]

D/C
we cannot place a "value'' on a product, we can place a perceived value on it. You have placed a "value" of $7000 on the product, which the dealer could sell it for by not make the profit he needs to stay in business.
Huh? made a good point, the time and effort you have spent "researching' this purchase has probably cost you in some way. Time away from doing activities you enjoy,time away from family, work you could be doing instead of posting on web boards. The price of $7900 with those options is lower than waht I'm seen Optimas for. Obviously you don't think the value is there for you, I would move on before it costs me any more time and money.

[Chris_H]

D/C

I don’t care about you whole post except for this comment: “They do not care about buyers!”
Who the hell are you kidding?  Where do you have the right to say that?  If we didn’t care about our customers we would not have customers.  


Back to the rest of your post:


Let’s use your analogy of the Vista (by the way did you sign up to try to win an Envoy):
It costs $5,000 from the manufacturer (It does not.  I can guarantee you it is absolutely much more expensive than that).  

Accessories:
I need to pay for delivery to my warehouse.  To the east coast it costs $350.  You want an ozonator.  It costs $165.  You want a Hotspring cover cradle.  It costs $225.  You want an LED light.  It costs $130.  You want a starter chemical package.  It costs $150 (took a guess).  

We are now at a total cost of $6,020.

Installation:
We also must include delivery to your house and installation of your options that you purchased (LED Light, Ozonator, Cover Cradle)  Bear with me, I am going to do some math here:
It takes on average 4 people to deliver a spa.  It tends to take about 4 hours to deliver the spa (this includes drive time).  For 4 people, for four hours, making 20 dollars an hour it costs you $320 dollars for your delivery.
It takes 1 person an hour to install an ozonator.  Cost $20 dollars.
It takes 1 person an hour to install a Cover Cradle.  Cost $20 dollars.
It takes 1 person a half-hour to install a LED light.  Cost $10 dollars.
Total Cost for optional features $370 dollars.
We are now at a total cost of $6,390.

Commission:
We have now $3,610 to spend for expenses.  The biggest up-front and noticeable expense is commission.  Most sales people get between a 5% and a 10% commission.  You don’t even want to get into the cost if it is a hit team member selling at a fair or a home show.
Lets use an average figure of 7.5% of the total purchase price.  That now costs the dealer $750 dollars.  

Your profit has now gone from $3,610 to $2,860.  This $2,860 needs to pay for the following:  building, worker’s comp insurance, health insurance, trailer, car to deliver the spa, that person testing your water, advertising, and 4 years of Harvard for the dealer’s daughter.

Oh and I forgot, I just saw on Dr. Spa’s site that a Vista sold for $8,529.  Let see how the numbers work out now.  

$8529       Spa Purchase Price
($1,020)       Accessories
($370)      Installation charges
($640)      Commission (7.5% X $8,529)
(5,000)      Dealer cost for spa (actual dealer cost much higher)

$1,499      Is that a profit I see?  Oh wait I have to pay for my building, worker’s comp insurance, health insurance, trailer, car to deliver the spa, that person testing your water, and 4 years of Harvard for the dealer’s daughter.


Do you honestly believe dealers are ripping you off?

[stuart]

Wanna put that one to a vote?

OOh! I wanna vote! Pick Me! Pick Me!

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

How about looking at it like this.

A HUGE dealer might be selling 400 spas a year. If you cut his price by $500 per spa he's now losing $200,000.00 per year. Where does that 200k come from? His pocket! I can pretty much guarantee that NO dealer is making that kind of money (Chas and myself excluded   ).

[doodoo]

In a true competitive market, we would know all costs.  All dealers would be selling at or near the same cost.
I should be an economics professor or better yet an attorney that would go after these manufs!
D/C

Sounds more like communism to me.

Right after completing 2 years of law school, I took myself right up to a masters in public management and economics because that proved more interesting to me. Judging from the structure of your thoughts and your approach in making your case, I am supremely confident in saying that you fail miserably in economics and should you decide to represent yourself in the judiciary you would find yourself paying out enormous legal fines for slanderous accusations.  But rather than listening to little me and so many others here that have distinguished themselves as valuable resources


BTW.  you have more than enough info. Stop the ranting and buy the tub or not. But if you continue as D/C or some other pseudonym, I will again re-iterate, do something about it and open up your own dealership so that you can prove all others here wrong. Of course you could always revert to the courts to get satisfaction since you are so convinced that there is a complicity from the manufacturers. And since you are obviously so well versed in the legal world, you should have no problems in proving your case. But hey this is a free market economy so go ahead Don Quichote.

[doodoo]

OOh! I wanna vote! Pick Me! Pick Me!

OOOOH OOOH no, over here! over here! Me first!

LOL!

[stuart]

How about looking at it like this.

A HUGE dealer might be selling 400 spas a year. If you cut his price by $500 per spa he's now losing $200,000.00 per year. Where does that 200k come from? His pocket! I can pretty much guarantee that NO dealer is making that kind of money (Chas and myself excluded   ).

And you make that just on coversavers, right?

[dazedandconfused]

'How about looking at it like this.

A HUGE dealer might be selling 400 spas a year. If you cut his price by $500 per spa he's now losing $200,000.00 per year. Where does that 200k come from? His pocket! I can pretty much guarantee that NO dealer is making that kind of money (Chas and myself excluded  '

No, you are wrong.  If you cut your prices 500, that is $500 less profit.  That is not coming out of your pocket!

[Steve]

Why don't we cut our loses with Dazed and stop playing his game. Let him post to himself as I'm sure if we leave him long enough, he'll start responding to his own amazingly senseless posts as a sport.

eww eww misa Kotter miser Kotter

[spaguyohio]

500 less times 400 - hmmmm, unless theres some new math I dont know about, that is 200k in lost profits (which happen to pay all the overhead, workmen's comp, shipping, rent, etc).  

How many dealers here have free rent, free insurance, free utilities, free shipping and other "neccessities" that make up overhead?

Get serious! Either buy the dang thing, or dont waste folks time here.

[Chas]

I really wanted to stay out of this thread, but I will add this:

I truly think most buyers want a store they can go to. They feel better about shopping in a "brick and mortar" place: even if they go to a couple to learn about the item and then buy the item online. But one way or another, a store generally comes into the purchase of big-ticket items.

And after the purchase, we all have a question or two about the care and feeding of our purchases. Again, a store that you can call or go to is something we generally take for granted.

I would like to point out that I spend $60K on rent alone for one store, $25K for the second store, and $8K for the warehouse (not counting the forklift) each year. That means that I have to sell quite a few tubs just to pay the rent - before I start working on the other costs, such as:
yellow-page ads ($10k per year) and newspaper advertising ($15k per year or more) direct-mail,
staff - don't ever think that what you earn per hour is all it costs your employer to have you around!! -
electricity, building maint., display items, phone bills, software and computer systems and upkeep for same, an accountant, legal retainer, training and other seminars, trucks and trailers, all the licensing for the above, biz cards and other printing, office supplies and machines, tools, shipping costs, spoilage and shrinkage (when my guys tear a cover or scratch a spa I don't get to charge the customer to fix it...), cell phones, a home office with networking to keep an eye on the stores, uniforms, and don't even get me started on Insurance - I may very well pay out more than D&C earns on insurance alone.

And whlie my staff is made up of some of finest people I know, when people ask me what I do for a living, I jokingly say, "I support a small army of people who's job it is to see to it that I don't have any excess money left at the end of the year."

Now - my operation is tiny compared to some out there. Any one of use who walks into a major retailer is going to be paying a little part of their overhead as well. And if you think they can build those nice-looking auto dealerships and keep them running without taking something out of the price of each item sold....

My point is that you can, and most likely will, drive yourself nuts if you go around trying to grind off the profit for a spa purchase. If the store owner/operator knows what they are doing, they will maintain a margin that keeps them in business. And whether you will admit it nor not, you will profit from them being there now, and in the future.

I make a good living at what I do - although my stores only represent part of my income - but I also am not limited to just a 40-hour week, nor do I get to leave my cell phone off when I am away. My 'day off' means I might only get 5 calls with fires to put out instead of 25. If I am lying awake on any given night, there is generally only one choice if you wanted to guess what I am thinking of. Look at the times for my posts - they are often made when I get up at some odd hour and go to the computer to look at a report, balance sheet, account status or what-have-you.

And if any of a dozen people mess up, it comes out of my pocket. It's called risk.

If you want to go into business, do it. You will never be more in control of your life. But count on this: every decision you make must be just right, 'cause the one you blow may be the one that costs you everything you have.