110V or 220V?

[grimaila]

I am looking at some of the smaller HS spas and wanted to know you opinion on the 110V or 220V option. I know that if I get the 110V option, I cannot have the jets and the heater running simultaneously. How important is this?  I live in Dayton, Ohio if that is of any help. If I go 220V, I have to upgrade my power panel because my current one is maxed out.

Mike

[stuart]

Mike those spas are convertible, try it on 110 before upgrading your electrical and see how you like it.

You will lose about 1 degree every 10 minutes average with the jets running on high, most people don't run their jets much longer than that. I have found that if you keep your temp slightly higher on a 110 it usually doesn’t seem to be a problem.

220 will recover faster and heat up much quicker but the initial cost may outweigh the benefit in your case.

Take a look at Marquis 110/220 convertible models also. I think them and HS make the best 110's out there.

[Shut_Down_Stranger]

220 Volts is the way to go. You may be able to get double buckets and or switch out some of the 110 breakers for 220.    

[Spatech_tuo]

220v is certainly optimal unless you simply can't get it to the spa right now. Stuart's advice was sound as it won't hurt you to run it at 110V for now and evaluate it yourself as you can run 220V at a later time and convert it then.

[Chas]

By all means go ahead with the 110 - and convert later if you feel you need to. But I suspect that upgrading the panel in your house may be a wise investment anyway.

I get involved in a lot of upgrades, and the customer always freaks when they get the first bid. But don't think of it as part of the price of the spa. Think of it as a home improvement that LETS you get a spa of your choice.

Of course, after it's done and the lights don't flicker when the washer runs, or they can actually get a new microwave oven with more than 300 watts, and they can run the coffee maker anytime they darn well please without having to see if anyone is about to run a vacuum or a blow-drier in the back of the house - and they can now see when they take out the trash or let the pet out, and they finally get that light for the front walk, or one over the drive so they can see to unload groceries at night, or that ceiling fan they've been talking about for ten years, or an outlet to plug the christmas lights into with a switch inside, or a switch by the bed to turn on the security lights in the back yard, or a motion detector light on the front porch so their teenaged daughter doesn't spend too much time saying goodnight......

Oh THOSE problems? Yeah, took care of those too, but it was part of the spa...

[Spa_Tech]

If youre in a temperate part of the country and the spa is adequately insulated...

flip a coin.

In a place like Dayton, I might be inclined to lean towards 220v, but theres nothing lost on trying it at 110v and changing your mind later.

[UnderTheStars]

Hi Mike!  Take another look at the above response from Chas - those are excellent points.  Also, at least have a couple electricians look/bid before you rule out upgrade.  Here's my addition to what Chas said:

Your panel is "maxed out."  Ok, if you mean there are no empty slots, you may have an easy "upgrade."  You may be able to simply add a subpanel.  If this route is appropriate, you simply move two general use (lights, outlets) breakers to the new subpanel.  In their place you use a 220 breaker to feed the interior subpanel.  On the new subpanel you use a 50amp/220 breaker to feed power outside to the spa.  So, have a qualified electrician take a look before you assume you have to completely replace what you have.

I'm not saying 120 is bad.  I am saying it's a lot nicer if you don't have to limit your choices.  Hope this helps!

[grimaila]

Thanks to everyone who replied...

We are not having any electrical problems that Chas alluded to, but I suppose it would be a house upgrade. If I try going the subpanel route, would I be combining exisiting circuits to free up new circuits? Can I give up two 20 amp breakers and get a 50 amp in their place?

Mike

[UnderTheStars]

Sorry 'bout that Mike, let me clarify:

1) You mount a subpanel next to your existing main panel.  It can be a physically smaller or same size panel - you need one with a least 6 breaker slots.  You can also use a full size "main panel" as the sub (there is an internal conversion to make a main panel work as a subpanel. So you can use one with up to 32 full size slots)  The reason you mount a subpanel is to make additional branch circuits available if the main panel is full.  So, no you are not "combining circuits" to gain more; you ADD THE SUBPANEL to gain more.

2)  Once the new panel is mounted you need to power it from the main.  You need 2 slots in the main panel to instal a 220 double pole breaker to feed the sub.  To gain those two slots, you simply move two 15 or 20 amp breakers from the main to the new sub.

At this point you now have two open slots in the main panel, and two existing circuits installed in the new sub.  In the two open slots (main panel) you put in a double pole breaker and feed it to the main lugs on the new sub panel.  (You put in larger than a 50 amp because it will power the 50 amp spa breaker AND the two circuits we moved over.)

3)In the new subpanel (let's say it had 16 full size slots) you have two existing lighting circuits and 14 more "open" slots.  Now you have a live panel that's not filled.  You add a 50 amp/220 breaker to the sub panel and pull that wire outside to the spa's GFCI panel outdoors.  Notice, if we used a sub panel w/16 slots you still have 12 open slots for some minor additions down the road (patio light, outlet in the garage, etc.)

So, if the "maxed out" issue is that you have no open spaces on your main panel, the addition of a subpanel fixes that without costing too much.

CAUTION!!!!!:  This is not an upgrade that you should take on yourself.  Many readers on the forum are handy enough to change a faulty outlet or wall switch, perhaps even add a new circuit (garage, patio light.)  But what we are talking about is beyond the ability of an average homeowner.  The first step is to determine if this is even an appropriate rout given the specifics of your existing electrical system.  

So please, have a qualified electrician look at your panel and discuss options.  If you are handy, a good electrician will bid with you doing some of the manual work (hang the plywood/mount the new panel, trench the yard/run the exterior conduit, etc.)  Call someone, you may be pleasantly surprised.  Good luck, let us know how it turns out!   (sorry this is long, would have been easier if I could have drawn you a picture!)

[Brewman]

What size electrical service do you currently have serving your house?  The spaces you have for breakers, and the ratings of the breakers means very little if you don't have an adequate amount of power feeding your house.  Older houses were built with 100 amp or less service.   In that case, it's almost certain that you'd need a service upgrade to install something that pulls as much power as a spa.  This is especially true for a home with c/a, electric hot water heater, etc...
Service upgrades are way past the capability of most homeowners, and can be quite expensive.  
 Newer homes are built with either 150 or 200 amp service.  Some older homes may have been upgraded over the years also.   If this is your case, you probably have enough power capacity unless you have electric heat.
 There are a lot of options on how to wire off of a main panel to serve a hot tub.  Unless you are very comfortable working with electical wiring, hire a pro.  
Spa wiring is not a good first project.  
A pro can do a demand load calculation to see if you have adequate existing power, and can offer you the best ideas for how to wire your spa.
Brewman

[UnderTheStars]

Hi!  I agree Brewman that the service entrance size is a key component.  Also agree this is not stuff for novice homeowners to tackle and Mike needs to call in an electrician to advise him (read the "Caution" at end of my prev. post.)

But I don't think we should diagnose whether Mike needs a complete upgrade or not via internet forum.  He needs a qualified pro to take a look.  You're right to think about Mike's SE size, mechanicals (elect vs. gas,) etc.  However, the actual calculation for allowable total load on a given SE size is fairly complex (I'm talking about the NEC calculation) and takes into account more than just the size of the main breaker/SE cable.

My intent was to help Mike understand he may well have more (cheaper) options than a total service upgrade.  So Mike, call in an electrician so you know exactly where you stand.  

[Chas]

My intent was to help Mike understand he may well have more (cheaper) options than a total service upgrade.  So Mike, call in an electrician so you know exactly where you stand.  

There ya go!

[Brewman]

Hi!  I agree Brewman that the service entrance size is a key component.  Also agree this is not stuff for novice homeowners to tackle and Mike needs to call in an electrician to advise him (read the "Caution" at end of my prev. post.)

But I don't think we should diagnose whether Mike needs a complete upgrade or not via internet forum.  He needs a qualified pro to take a look.  You're right to think about Mike's SE size, mechanicals (elect vs. gas,) etc.  However, the actual calculation for allowable total load on a given SE size is fairly complex (I'm talking about the NEC calculation) and takes into account more than just the size of the main breaker/SE cable.

My intent was to help Mike understand he may well have more (cheaper) options than a total service upgrade.  So Mike, call in an electrician so you know exactly where you stand.  

I wasn't trying to diagnose anything for the poster, just pointing out that this possibility exists, and I also suggest he call in a pro to get the correct setup for his situation.
Brewman

[UnderTheStars]

Brewman, you are absolutely right!  I was being a curmudgeon and I apologize!  (Just spent 30 minutes in the hottub and the world seems a lot more peaceful - sorry for upsetting the balance!)

[grimaila]

Once again, thanks for all of the replies (and cautions). Believe it or not, I am an electrical engineer... But I play with semiconductors and microprocessors (low voltage stuff). I know my limitations and would NEVER take on a project like this (especially since it involves the safety of me and my loved ones).

My home was built in 1973 and has a 200 amp service. We are not using all of this capacity... I have calculated the load (sum of existing breakers) at 150 amps. So, I believe that I can get an electrician to insert a sub panel.

Mike