Curious about chemicals

[Bobman58]

When we first bought our tub years ago my wife was all over the chemicals, checking the Ph and "shocking" the water and what-not. After a time it became tedious and rather bothersome. Now-a-days we just toss some bromine tabs in the floater and that's it. It's just he two of us so it doesn't get too much use. I do wonder if there's a downside to not checking and adjusting all the time though.

Robert

[bud16415]

Before and right after we bought our tub I thought I made a huge mistake with buying it as I felt like a full time chemist at a water treatment plant and I was getting a job failure review. I talked to a dozen people I knew and some I didn’t except someone told me they had a hot tub, and I asked them all how do you maintain your tub? Out of 12 people I got about 10 different answers. I asked everyone what their water quality was like and they all said clear and great. One guy had started out with bromine and like me had problems and he switched to a salt generator add on and loved it. One guy said his wife puts 25 drops of something in the first of each month and the water is perfect. Another guy said he tosses in a small palm full of stuff every time he uses it and he tells the neighbor lady that uses it to do the same. Another said ya we just use Clorox after each use. A couple people tested their water and others said you can just tell if it is too high or low by smell and feel. Couple said they have floaters with the tablets like you use. It sounded to me like I was working the hardest at it and doing the worst and I had a spa with automatic sanitation with the frog system and minerals and ozone. I gave up on bromine and switched to diclor adding it after usage and then I started using Clorox part of the time my measurement. If the water looks a like it is getting slightly cloudy I use non chlorine shock seems like it is twice a month based on our usage now. I check it with a strip once in a while.

I have no idea how others are getting away with hit or miss procedures but I have a suspicion. I think people going hit or miss are really over sanitizing and their bodies are not bothered by it. They tell you 2 PPM and I think people might be doing 5-10 PPM. I think back to working on a dairy farm and everything got scrubbed every milking with soap and water and Clorox and the sink held about 10 gallon max and they would dump a cup of Clorox in there and you would stick your hands in and out of that water for an hour and it didn’t burn your hands off. I remember it did really dry your skin and they all used heavy duty hand cream after or had hands like leather. I only need to add something like a quarter cup to my 400 gallons to sanitize. 

If it isn’t giving you any skin problems and is working and keeping your tub clear and nice it seems to be working for you. Once I backed away from it a little and didn’t worry if the level of sanitizer was a little high life got easier for me. That’s my take on it the pros might see it different.   

[The Wizard of Spas]

Regardless of brand, product, pool, spa, swim spa.... Water chemistry is 3 things:  pH, Alkalinity, Sanitizer.
I have written several training manuals, blogs, attended countless seminars, and have 20 years worth of water chemistry experience in this industry.  I even correspond with the lead chemist at the manufacturer of my chemicals we carry in-store.  There are many different gimmicks and ways to treat your water.  Or to use this analogy:  Everyone wants to cross the finish line, but we all can run the race differently.  In all- water chemistry always leads back to these three things:  pH, alkalinity and sanitizer.

You nail these three things, you are 90% there.

Not balancing pH:  Eats away at jets, heater, etc.  Not covered under most (if all) warranties.  pH imbalance also does not allow your sanitizer to be effective.  When your sanitizer is not effective, you have problems (water cloudiness, growth in water, bacteria in pores that cause rashes, etc).  Also allows metal to deposit:  Low pH allows metals to deposit on surfaces (ie- the "sandpaper feel" on your spa's shell), high pH pulls metals from their sources (or why your heater will fail prematurely).

Common misconception about jets:  The plastic of the jet is eaten away and that allows for the ball bearings to fall out.  Many manufacturers declare the ball bearings are to blame and thus have pushed jets devoid of the ball bearings.  Jets will still fail in habitually unbalanced water though.  This is why pH balancing is important, along with the above issues.

Not balancing Alk:  Allows for pH to swing (typically up).  When that happens, the above happens.

Sanitizer:  Keeps your tub from being gross, things growing in it, water clear, so on so forth.

How to do water chemistry:  Stop thinking in the terms of "what do I have to do weekly?"  This will make your brain melt.  Instead consider how you plan for buying gas or groceries- Do you say "Its Tuesday- Gotta fill up the tank/ go to the grocery store!"?

Nope. 

Water chemistry is adjust *AS NEEDED* just as you fill your tank as needed.  Water chemistry is balanced, adjusted, and products are added *AS PRODUCTS ARE USED*, just as you use your groceries as often as you, say, cook.

Cooking:  Buy/make food as often as necessary, with variations in meals based on how many times you're cooking, who you're cooking for, so on, so forth.

Sanitizer:  Add/adjust levels based on how often you are in the tub/week, how long your sessions last, how many people are in there.

You get pH, alk and sanitizer down, you are in the clear.  You stay with it, your tub lasts a helluva lot longer.  Lack of proper sanitization and pH/alk balancing is the great hot tub destroyer, and its equal-opportunity.

A Kia and a Mercedes will both break down if you treat them like garbage.  If you take care of the cars, one should last longer than the other.

Best practices:  Test 1-2 per week REGARDLESS.  Don't take water for granted. 

If you have questions, feel free to ask here or pm me.  I have tons of educational stuff on my website I'll point you to.

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward. 

[Alicatt]

Hi, I have a question:

I have seen lots of reference to di-chlorine tablets, and it is what I use in my swimming pool, in my tub there is a Hayward chlorine feeder and it states on it to use slow release tri-chlorine tablets, what is the difference between di-chlorine and tri-chlorine and would it be ok to use the normal di-chlorine tablets in the feeder?

[The Wizard of Spas]

Di-Chlor are not tablets:  Di-Chlor cannot be tabletized.  Tri-Chlor are tablets.

Mono-Chlor:  What is found in your tap water (approx 3% effective)

Di-Chlor:  Granulated chlorine, Various degrees of effectiveness (Sometimes 52%, sometimes 90, 97 or 99% effectiveness:  These numbers are subjective based on what the manufacturer uses for their metrics.  Its dumb but its really about marketing, hence the variations on numbers.  But then again there are some chlorines that are indeed lessor potency.  Regardless, I digress...).   

Tri-Chlor:  Tabletized chlorine. 

Read the active ingredient:  If it starts with "Tri-Chloro" or "Sodium Di-Chlor" its sodium-based.  If it starts "Calcium Hypo" then its calcium-based.  There are many differences between these and what is best for you is based on a whole slew of variables.

But the Mono, Di or Tri refers to the number of chlorine atoms. 

Di-Chlor is always preferred in a hot tub as its quick dissolve:  Tri-Chlor or Cal-Hypo tabs allow for chlorine gas to build up, which leads to deterioration of head rests, hot tub covers, and, obviously, its chlorine gas which is a health hazard.

Make sense?

[Alicatt]

Yes it makes sense, thanks, tho I will have to look at the box of tablets again.

The Chlorine feeder has lots of warnings on it about explosions, and the top of the cap was only held on by a small bead of silicone rubber... maybe it blew off at some point in it's previous history 

[The Wizard of Spas]

Explosions are more likely to occur when mixing chlorine *types*:  If you were to, say, normally use Cal-Hypo and you buy Tri-Chlor and you added a Tri tab to your automatic feeder while a Hypo tab is still in there, it will explode.  I have seen this first-hand.

Thus- It is important to read the active ingredient when you make your purchases.

As a clarification:  Feeders and tablets are fine in in ground pools.  Its the hot tubs that neither are recommended.

[Alicatt]

The feeder looks like it was built in from the start, it does not look like a later addition, though the image in the instruction manual differs greatly from what is on mine, not that I expected them to be identical.

Mine:


Image in manual:


The leak you see on the bottom of the tub is from the feeder, the top of the cap is totally separate, broken off all the way around and only held on with a bead of silicone, now I'm wondering if someone did mix the tablets at some point. 

[Bobman58]

Ok so what I get is if the water stays clear, doesn't smell, I'm not getting any odd feeling on the inside surface( slimy or rough) and I'm not getting any abhorrent skin reactions, then things should be fine. In truth, this was a very inexpensive tub when we bought it 20 some years ago and I would've expected it to spring a leak somewhere long before now but it seems to be holding up so far. I do remember when my wife was handling the additives that when we turned on the high pump if I got a whiff off the water it would take my breath away. Very gaseous. Really made it feel like an un-healthy atmosphere. Really cuts down on the enjoyment factor. What I'm doing now seems to be working so I guess I will carry on until something comes up that tells me changes are in order.
Thanks for the information.

Robert

[Tman122]

Ok so what I get is if the water stays clear, doesn't smell, I'm not getting any odd feeling on the inside surface( slimy or rough) and I'm not getting any abhorrent skin reactions, then things should be fine. In truth, this was a very inexpensive tub when we bought it 20 some years ago and I would've expected it to spring a leak somewhere long before now but it seems to be holding up so far. I do remember when my wife was handling the additives that when we turned on the high pump if I got a whiff off the water it would take my breath away. Very gaseous. Really made it feel like an un-healthy atmosphere. Really cuts down on the enjoyment factor. What I'm doing now seems to be working so I guess I will carry on until something comes up that tells me changes are in order.
Thanks for the information.

Robert

Good advice from the wiz bob. Relax and keep your water sanitized. Check your PH once a week until you figure out how to get the PH and the alk to stay close to there optimum. Then you may not have to check it and adjust it but once a month.

I used to think of it as a range, in other words if a PH of 7.2 and an alk of 120 is desirable then you could add baking soda to raise both PH and alk (mine always had to go up mostly because of the dichlor (cyanaric acid) and bleach) used as sanitized. Bromine was worse at driving the PH down, I thought. I would over compensate, if I knew I was going to use it 6-8 times in a month and add sanitizer after or inbetween soaks I knew that would drive the PH and alk down so I would add enough baking soda to raise it to 7.4-7.6 and it would raise the alk to about 100-110 from 80. Takes longer for it to drop to 7.2, which is supposed to be desirable right? And I would even let it drop another .4 to no less than 6.8 PH before I adjusted it again. More baking soda.

Add acid through sanitizer and then baking soda to neutralize it. Or vice versa if your water is high PH/alk. Never had this problem so can't speak well of it.

Never had any detrimental effects on any of my tubs. I relaxed. Chlorine didn't bother me but I never soaked with a cholrine level higher than about .5 ppm almost like drinking water. Tryed bromine a few times and it seemed like even though I was using a feeder for convenience I messed with the balance more. And the water always had a high chlorine/bromine smell. Kinda seemed like a waste to have the tub sanitize after it was sanitized. But I had clients who loved it.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Ok so what I get is if the water stays clear, doesn't smell, I'm not getting any odd feeling on the inside surface( slimy or rough) and I'm not getting any abhorrent skin reactions, then things should be fine. In truth, this was a very inexpensive tub when we bought it 20 some years ago and I would've expected it to spring a leak somewhere long before now but it seems to be holding up so far. I do remember when my wife was handling the additives that when we turned on the high pump if I got a whiff off the water it would take my breath away. Very gaseous. Really made it feel like an un-healthy atmosphere. Really cuts down on the enjoyment factor. What I'm doing now seems to be working so I guess I will carry on until something comes up that tells me changes are in order.
Thanks for the information.

Robert

That statement right there is why we sell Salt Systems at an almost 70% clip...nobody wants to breathe that crap in