Hydropool, Bulfrog, or Coast?

[Tilvanth]

     I live in Northern Ontario and there is an extreme shortage of dealers in my area.  Of the 4 that exist, only 2 currently have any models to look at.  Of those 2 only one offered a dry test, neither a wet test.  Each place only offers a single brand to choose from.  We were looking at the 720 model for Hydropool, the R7 for Bullfrog, and not sure with Coast.  That dealer had just moved locations and hadn't gotten in any tubs yet. We are looking for something that is going to be lower cost for life of ownership as opposed to trying to cheap out up front. 

     Based on what research I have done, though it seems almost impossible to find anything unbiased, the abs backing of the Bullfrog is inferior to the fiberglass backing of the Hydropool.  The full foam vs thermal debate seems to have no clear winner, though I do like the idea of being able to better access the underside of the tub if necessary without having to dig and refill. 

     The main selling feature of the Hydropool, according to the dealer, was the self cleaning feature.  This seems like a somewhat dubious claim to me.  All hot tubs seem to have roughly equivalent cleaning capabilities from what I could tell, though I of course could be mistaken.

     The main selling feature of the Bullfrog was its modular nature.  This seemed really neat, but the more I think about it, the less I think I would ever change things around once we settled into whatever option we ended up choosing.  I was also concerned with the strength of the packs.  I am a big guy with a big family.  If I happen to slip and fall against a pack it kind of seems to me like it might crack, as opposed to the solid casing of other tubs.

     I have no idea what the main selling feature of Coast is.  The dealer who sold them did not seem particularly knowledgeable nor did she own a tub herself.  They are mostly a custom pool place  that just threw in hot tubs as extra I think.

     The R7 was about $11k vs $13.5k for the 720. The higher price and better warranty lead me to believe the Hydropool is most likely higher quality than the Bullfrog, but often you end up paying for a name as opposed to a significant difference in product.  The Coast for a roughly equivalent product was also quoted at around the $11k mark.

     Any insight that people could offer would be greatly appreciated.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a current Coast or Hydropool dealer or spa owner for that matter post on here recently so info may be limited.  I can tell you I have experience with Hydropool swim-spas and the "self cleaning" featured definitely "helped" keep the floor of the swim spa (yes I realize different animals, but same concept) clean but In my opinion I wouldn't go out of my way and/or pay extra for the feature, regardless of a "self clean" feature or not you'll still need to: wipe scum line occasionally, clean your filters, balance your water, add water-care products, change your water 3-4 times per year, etc. so with all that said how much extra is a self clean feature really worth? to me its worth absolutely 0...your mileage may vary

Re: JetPaks...dropped on concrete is 1 thing, but while installed in a spa with water in it I've never seen a JetPak crack from a "big" person/family, I've never even had anyone bring that question up, its simply not a concern to me (if it is to you then you'll have to simply look at something else).  I can tell you from experience if anyone has rambunctious kids the absolute first thing that will break on a spa is the 'diverter valves' because kids and their friends love to crank on those things so like mentioned they are the first thing to break.

Re: Coast...I have absolutely 0 insight on Coast, In 14 years I've never sold, serviced, or even sold against that brand

Re: Warranty...I'm curious do you have a link or a copy of the Hydropool warranty? It may in fact blow Bullfrogs warranty out of the water but here's the thing...I can't find it, I can't find it browsing around their website, I can't find it utilizing the "search" function on their website, I can't even find it doing a random Google search.  Bullfrogs on the other hand I can get the complete warranty in literally 2 mouse clicks on their website so my next thought is, why is that? Why would Company X have the warranty so easily accessible whereas company Y has it pretty much hidden from public view? again if I'm blind and not obviously seeing it please let me know, and if it is better then other brands than someone in Hydropool's marketing/website department needs a talking to because all other premium brands with good/great warranties make them easily accessible on there respective websites.

good luck in the search

[Tilvanth]

Thanks for the info. I also could not find any warranty information on the Hydropool website. It appears to be completely based on the dealer rather than the company which seems very odd to me.

I have heard people say that algae can build up behind the seats of the Bullfrogs. One individual stated it used to be a problem but has since been fixed.  Are you familiar with this problem at all, or what solution they used to fix it? So many things I hear I swear are competitors trying to trash talk other brands. It is so hard to try to sift out the facts.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Thanks for the info. I also could not find any warranty information on the Hydropool website. It appears to be completely based on the dealer rather than the company which seems very odd to me.

I have heard people say that algae can build up behind the seats of the Bullfrogs. One individual stated it used to be a problem but has since been fixed.  Are you familiar with this problem at all, or what solution they used to fix it? So many things I hear I swear are competitors trying to trash talk other brands. It is so hard to try to sift out the facts.

grasping....Bullfrog is VERY hard to sell against, that hasn't been an issue in over 3 years but competitors have nothing else to grasp onto so they still try that "line"....it's truly a non-issue. they added circulation jets into the JetPaks so all the water is circulated now.

As far as Hydropool the warranty thing is very weird, I remember selling their swim-spas and the warranty was very clear and even printed in the brochures I believe, but I'm definitely not buying the "its based on each individual dealer" line at all...why would all the top premier spa manufacturers in United States (Hot Spring, Sundance/Jacuzzi, Marquis, Bullfrog, Caldera, etc) make there warranty easily accessible on both there websites and in certain brochures but not Hydropool? if there warranty was truly "the best" it would be printed all over the place, doesn't make sense, to me anyway...just my .02

[Hottubguy]

Thanks for the info. I also could not find any warranty information on the Hydropool website. It appears to be completely based on the dealer rather than the company which seems very odd to me.

I have heard people say that algae can build up behind the seats of the Bullfrogs. One individual stated it used to be a problem but has since been fixed.  Are you familiar with this problem at all, or what solution they used to fix it? So many things I hear I swear are competitors trying to trash talk other brands. It is so hard to try to sift out the facts.

grasping....Bullfrog is VERY hard to sell against, that hasn't been an issue in over 3 years but competitors have nothing else to grasp onto so they still try that "line"....it's truly a non-issue. they added circulation jets into the JetPaks so all the water is circulated now.

As far as Hydropool the warranty thing is very weird, I remember selling their swim-spas and the warranty was very clear and even printed in the brochures I believe, but I'm definitely not buying the "its based on each individual dealer" line at all...why would all the top premier spa manufacturers in United States (Hot Spring, Sundance/Jacuzzi, Marquis, Bullfrog, Caldera, etc) make there warranty easily accessible on both there websites and in certain brochures but not Hydropool? if there warranty was truly "the best" it would be printed all over the place, doesn't make sense, to me anyway...just my .02

Hydropool is 7 structure, 5 shell, 3 equipment. At least that's what my competitor claims. I would buy a bullfrog before coast or hydropool any day. When I loose deals to bullfrog I get upset but only because the sales guy did a better job then me. When someone tells me they bought a hydropool I get pissed because I know they bought a inferior product.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Thanks for the info. I also could not find any warranty information on the Hydropool website. It appears to be completely based on the dealer rather than the company which seems very odd to me.

I have heard people say that algae can build up behind the seats of the Bullfrogs. One individual stated it used to be a problem but has since been fixed.  Are you familiar with this problem at all, or what solution they used to fix it? So many things I hear I swear are competitors trying to trash talk other brands. It is so hard to try to sift out the facts.

grasping....Bullfrog is VERY hard to sell against, that hasn't been an issue in over 3 years but competitors have nothing else to grasp onto so they still try that "line"....it's truly a non-issue. they added circulation jets into the JetPaks so all the water is circulated now.

As far as Hydropool the warranty thing is very weird, I remember selling their swim-spas and the warranty was very clear and even printed in the brochures I believe, but I'm definitely not buying the "its based on each individual dealer" line at all...why would all the top premier spa manufacturers in United States (Hot Spring, Sundance/Jacuzzi, Marquis, Bullfrog, Caldera, etc) make there warranty easily accessible on both there websites and in certain brochures but not Hydropool? if there warranty was truly "the best" it would be printed all over the place, doesn't make sense, to me anyway...just my .02

Hydropool is 7 structure, 5 shell, 3 equipment. At least that's what my competitor claims. I would buy a bullfrog before coast or hydropool any day. When I loose deals to bullfrog I get upset but only because the sales guy did a better job then me. When someone tells me they bought a hydropool I get pissed because I know they bought a inferior product.

I know this too well, for a number of years I worked across the street from a Cal Spa dealer, you think its bad losing to Hydropool, there were times I contemplated throwing a rope over the ceiling rafters 

[Tilvanth]

Thanks for the input guys.  It is so hard to get a good fix on quality of make.  I have researched a ton of different products online.  I have never had anywhere near the difficulty finding clear answers and reviews as I have for hot tubs.  If you wouldn't mind answering a few more questions I would appreciate it.

I have heard that pillows wear out quickly, build up contaminants and generally aren't a very good idea.  That being said I see that many manufacturers use them.  Is this another of those problems that have been fixed and I am just looking at old comments?

What chemical system do you recommend for keeping the water clean.  I am aware of chlorine, bromine, salt, and some natural alternatives.  Do they all pretty much work the same and it's just a matter of what you want to spend or perhaps smell?

I was trying to design a Bullfrog on their website, and while an R8 is listed in the all models section, it is not available to customize.  Is this a glitch or is there no longer a model R8 available and it simply has not been taken down from the site yet?

Do you feel an upgrade from the R series to the A series is worth the extra cost in terms of quality and effectiveness, or is it more of a prestige/cosmetic difference?  We don't care much about fancy lights or other features that serve no practical purpose.

[BullFrogSpasMN]

Thanks for the input guys.  It is so hard to get a good fix on quality of make.  I have researched a ton of different products online.  I have never had anywhere near the difficulty finding clear answers and reviews as I have for hot tubs.  If you wouldn't mind answering a few more questions I would appreciate it.

I have heard that pillows wear out quickly, build up contaminants and generally aren't a very good idea.  That being said I see that many manufacturers use them.  Is this another of those problems that have been fixed and I am just looking at old comments? Pillows from any manufacturer are going to be a very limited warranty, sometimes only warrantied through the "delivery date" others are 60, 90 days, etc. take care of your water-care and your pillows will have no problem lasting 5+ years before they need to be replaced

What chemical system do you recommend for keeping the water clean.  I am aware of chlorine, bromine, salt, and some natural alternatives.  Do they all pretty much work the same and it's just a matter of what you want to spend or perhaps smell? depends on soaking habits, # of user regularly, etc. we sell approx. 35% salt, 35% bromine, 25% standard chlorine, and 5% other like "BaquaSpa", etc. although depending who you ask those numbers will vary greatly dealer to dealer, again it mostly comes down to what system will work best for you and your habits

I was trying to design a Bullfrog on their website, and while an R8 is listed in the all models section, it is not available to customize.  Is this a glitch or is there no longer a model R8 available and it simply has not been taken down from the site yet? Actually the opposite, March/April is when most manufacturers are updating websites, printing new brochures, etc and the R8 is a brand new model this year so that is why there is a glitch I assume, the website will most likely be changing to reflect everything in "2016" in the next couple weeks

Do you feel an upgrade from the R series to the A series is worth the extra cost in terms of quality and effectiveness, or is it more of a prestige/cosmetic difference?  We don't care much about fancy lights or other features that serve no practical purpose...The A offers an extra JetPak, touchscreen control (option), "better" pillows, exterior 4 corner lighting, 2 aux. buttons to control jets from inside the tub...the R is more value driven but still built the same way so it offers a little more overall "value"

[sksmoker]

We bought a Coast Freedom in Aug '14. Fairly basic tub, nothing outrageous. No stereo, no super light package, etc. If your dealer can't support the Coast brand then no matter what brand it is, I would walk away. No one should buy a tub from a place like that as dealer support is key.

My dealer here is a Coast/Hotsprings dealer so they go against each other. So far it has been ok. Had some weird issues this winter with the filter bypass valve in the canister coming off and the drain end cracked in half back in January. Warmest winter we have had in the Prairies so not sure why those issues would happen. Dealer has been awesome to work with so I have no worries about anything being fixed under warranty.

Coast makes some really nice tubs with good features but none of that matters regardless of brand if your dealer cannot support you.

[Compatico]

I have heard that pillows wear out quickly, build up contaminants and generally aren't a very good idea.  That being said I see that many manufacturers use them.  Is this another of those problems that have been fixed and I am just looking at old comments?

What kind of pillows? Do you mean the boosters like these:
http://www.wayfair.com/Deluxe-Weighted-Spa-Booster-in-Grey-NP532-RFW1069.html
If so, we wouldn't have a hot tub without them. They're great and last for years. We don't take them out of the tub except when doing a water change (they're weighted so they don't float). And they're available in several colours...we like the black ones.

What chemical system do you recommend for keeping the water clean.  I am aware of chlorine, bromine, salt, and some natural alternatives.  Do they all pretty much work the same and it's just a matter of what you want to spend or perhaps smell?

If you maintain proper water quality and sanitizer levels, I think they're all fine. It's what you prefer. Note that "natural alternatives" usually mean they use something that's less harsh like minerals or copper or whatever, but you still need to sanitize as the only way to kill bacteria and get rid of bather waste like sweat is with an effective sanitizer like chlorine or bromine. We use the dichlor & bleach method and have no issues. We may try the "@ease" system by Frog whenever it's available here...sounds like it might be a good idea to help with keeping stable levels of chlorine in the tub at all times.

I was trying to design a Bullfrog on their website, and while an R8 is listed in the all models section, it is not available to customize.  Is this a glitch or is there no longer a model R8 available and it simply has not been taken down from the site yet?

It's probably just a glitch...the R8 is the exact same shell as the A8 but with less jetpaks and other features. The same goes for all of the A and R series tubs.

Do you feel an upgrade from the R series to the A series is worth the extra cost in terms of quality and effectiveness, or is it more of a prestige/cosmetic difference?  We don't care much about fancy lights or other features that serve no practical purpose.

It's not just the fancy lights and stuff. The A series has a longer warranty relating to the shell and structure:
Lifetime warranty on the frame.
A series 10 year shell leaks, 7 shell surface, 5 equipment, 1 lighting, etc.
R series 7 year shell leaks, 5 shell surface, 5 equipment, 1 lighting, etc.

You're basically paying about $1000 more for longer warranty, sconce lights, nicer control panel, auxilliary jetpump controls, matching colour jetpaks, and stainless jets. If you want the matching jetpaks and stainless jets, you might as well get the A series for the other extras too because you're probably paying half the difference for the jetpaks and jets. That's the way I look at it.

As for the jetpak idea, I think it's great because you get to pick your own preference of available jets. Everyone is different so you can customize the tub to your liking which is unique. And the mold/biofilm issue is no more...they redesigned the jetpaks a few years ago and circulate water behind the manifolds in the jetpak to keep it clean.

[Spatime]

I've had a Coast Freedom for about a year now and love it, no complaints.  I had pretty much every dealer available to me when I bought mine except Bullfrog was in a move and was closed, but it was on the top of my list to look at.  FWIW like SKS said if you have no dealer to support any spa its not worth it.  Coast also offers both insulation options depending on what you like.

[Hottubprosne]

Do not buy a coast we sold them i have worked on them. If you call their tech support in the field they call you back next week. I have never dealt with hydropool. We sell bullfrog and i can tell you from experience that they have a great warranty. They even cover pump seals and fuses for 5 years not everyone does that. In my opinion even if you never moved the jet packs around the build quality alone would be worth it to me. I have sold and worked on big names like Sundance and Watkins and out of a new truck load it was not unusual to have one or two tubs with issues from the factory. All we have had problems with on the bullfrogs are the stereos and that's like 10%. BUT it really comes down to your dealer if he supports his products then it should not be a big issue. I sell calspa as well and when they have had a bad run or issues my customers have never known the difference because we take care of them.

[Tilvanth]

Sorry, not sure how to do the nicely laid out quoting that you guys have been doing. 

In regards to the pillows I didn't mean added ones like those.  Had never even heard of them.  The ones I was talking about that I have seen are all built directly into the tub.  In the hydropool tubs they had a built in waterfall going through the pillow, I believe the the Bullfrog also have padding or a pillow at the top of the jetpacks that lock them in place.

I sort of thought that maybe the water chemicals was a personal taste thing.  If we have a pool that uses chlorine should that factor into our decision on what to use for our hot tub?  I have heard if people use different system and people go from one water to the other it can end up causing problems with the water and equipment.

From what I have found the shell is the same for R or A.  So they just warranty it longer in the A even though it is made from the same materials in the same way?  Just as extended warranty as part of your extra cost, or is there some sort of physical difference between the two?  Also, I had heard that ABS isn't as good for backing the acrylic as fiberglass is.  Is that not true or again just a personal preference issue?

Once again, thanks everyone so much for the input.  This have been invaluable info that I don't think I ever could have found out otherwise.

[Hottubprosne]

Bullfrog r and a have the same shell same pumps same packs most of the diff is cosmetic.

[Compatico]

Sorry, not sure how to do the nicely laid out quoting that you guys have been doing.

Heh...you just need to learn to add the "quote" "unquote" brackets to mark your quotes...no biggie...info is more important than nice quotes... 

In regards to the pillows I didn't mean added ones like those.  Had never even heard of them.  The ones I was talking about that I have seen are all built directly into the tub.  In the hydropool tubs they had a built in waterfall going through the pillow, I believe the the Bullfrog also have padding or a pillow at the top of the jetpacks that lock them in place.

The headrest pillows last for years. But if they get damaged or wear out, they can be replaced easily - most tubs use simple attachments like rubber plugs to hold them in place so they can be removed for cleaning or replacement.

The other pillows I mentioned are great - I sit on them about half of the time to cool and raise me out of the seat a bit, and also because they're darn comfortable. My wife likes them for the same reasons, plus she puts one on her hips when sitting in the lounger because she likes to crank up the jet pressure in the lounger and the weighted pillow keeps her from floating.

I sort of thought that maybe the water chemicals was a personal taste thing.  If we have a pool that uses chlorine should that factor into our decision on what to use for our hot tub?  I have heard if people use different system and people go from one water to the other it can end up causing problems with the water and equipment.

Chemical choice is somewhat personal...bromine is actually a better system as bromines sanitize much better than chloramines as contaminants build, but many people don't like the smell of bromine. You can switch from one to other without a water change, and going from a chlorine pool to a bromine hot tub isn't really an issue as the levels of chemical crossover are very low.

From what I have found the shell is the same for R or A.  So they just warranty it longer in the A even though it is made from the same materials in the same way?

Based on visual cues, they appear the same and for mass production it makes sense that they're the same. The price difference between identical A and R series (with the matching colour jetpaks and stainless jets) is about $500 or so, and that few hundred probably does toward warranty. Obviously the Bullfrog system uses a LOT less plumbing so I think they're just acknowledging that the chances for a leak are much lower and the price difference pays for the odd time they do get a leak within the warranty period - kinda like insurance plans you mentioned - you pay for it one way or the other.

Also, I had heard that ABS isn't as good for backing the acrylic as fiberglass is.  Is that not true or again just a personal preference issue?

Actually I believe the Bullfrog uses a molded fibreglass backing with an acrylic layer just like everyone else - haven't seen anything to make me think otherwise. The ABS is in the frame construction, supports, and one-piece molded base - no wood or steel to support the fibreglass/acrylic shell.