Is Trichlor making us cough?

[Gibson00]

Hi all, sorry for another chemicals question already...
So I gave my tub a fresh refill after having it for two weeks.  This was partly because I had added calcium and afterwards learned I shouldn't have, didn't like the feel of the water, so decided to start over.
So, again, I am using spaboss spa tabs (trichlor), 1 tab added every three days.  And every few days I add a couple cap fulls of the Arctic brand Refresh, which I believe is the non-chlorine shock.

I do have a Taylor test kit on the way, but so far am using test strips, and the levels on that seem to be fine.

BUT, one issue I've had all along, is that the steam rising off the water when the jets are on, makes us cough bad.  The water smells and looks perfectly fine.  But the steam is like breathing in a chemical.
Is this from the trichlor?  I'm reading online, trying to wrp my head around CYA, etc.  Could trichlor have raised my CYA level too high in two weeks, causing this issue with the steam?
I've read some stuff online that says trichlor is good because it doesn't raise CYA as much as dichlor, and I've read other posts that say trichlor should never be used in a spa and that only granular dichlor should be used (but won't that raise CYA more)?

OR, is it the Refresh non-chlorine shock that I use?  I've actually used very little though.  I think for my 500 gallon tub, it recommends 100 grams (4 cap fulls) of the powder, but I've never actually put that much in, more like two cap fulls at most, and since refilling the tub a week ago, I think I added 1 cap full once, and two cap fulls a few days later.  It's possible that maybe I didn't leave the cover off long enough for it to burn off (think it was about 10 minutes)?

Help!

[av8r]

Why are you using Trichlor?  It's generally not recommended for spas due to it being very acidic and dissolving too fast in hot water.  Perhaps the acidic nature is causing the cough?

[Gibson00]

I'm using it because that is what the Arctic Spa dealer told me to use.....1 tablet every three days.
Now I'm reading about CYA, dichlor to bleach, etc etc.
Also noticing that one week after refilling my tub, my PH is very high again, around 8 I think.  No idea why.

All I've used over the past 7 days is a couple of the trichlor spa tabs, and a small amount of refresh (non-chlorine shock), and about a cup of Aquafinesse.

My Taylor k-2006 kit should be here soon.....I'm interested to see what the CYA level is, etc.

Another question - the dichlor to bleach method.....is there a specific kind of bleach?  Or just normal household bleach?  I ask because on the following website, they specifically say to stay away from household bleach for hot tubs:
http://www.spadepot.com/shop/Chlorine-W18.aspx

I'm getting a 'sinking' feeling that I'm going to be refilling the tub again in the near future......grrrr...

[Hottubguy]

Tricolor is part of the aqua finesse system av8r. When you add chemicals especially oxidizers try leaving the cover opened for a half hour or so instead of he 10 minutes. Sounds like the fumes are building up under the cover from not enough chance to gas off

[Gibson00]

Thanks, will give it a try.

[Quickbeam]

Another question - the dichlor to bleach method.....is there a specific kind of bleach?  Or just normal household bleach?  I ask because on the following website, they specifically say to stay away from household bleach for hot tubs:
http://www.spadepot.com/shop/Chlorine-W18.aspx

Have a look at this thread (http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,19152.0.html) and in particular reply #4 from ChemGeek. He outlines what kind of bleach you should, and should not use. Hope this helps.

[av8r]

Tricolor is part of the aqua finesse system av8r. When you add chemicals especially oxidizers try leaving the cover opened for a half hour or so instead of he 10 minutes. Sounds like the fumes are building up under the cover from not enough chance to gas off

Thanks.  So is it a popular system?  Seems counter to most of what I've read to use Trichlor.

[Hottubguy]

Tricolor is part of the aqua finesse system av8r. When you add chemicals especially oxidizers try leaving the cover opened for a half hour or so instead of he 10 minutes. Sounds like the fumes are building up under the cover from not enough chance to gas off

Thanks.  So is it a popular system?  Seems counter to most of what I've read to use Trichlor.

I don't think it's that popular. One of my competitors sells it so I had to learn up on it a little bit. I never push trichlor. To me the negatives outweigh the positives. I use a bromine system (spa frog) in my tub

[Gibson00]

Is Bromine easier to use than chlorine?

Searching the net, I see lots of folks with similar issues - within a few weeks of changing water, it gets more fizzy with jets, fizzy film on top (not soapy) and fumes/steam makes everyone cough...

Anyway, I'm trying not to stress too much about it and waiting for the Taylor kit to arrive and see where my levels are really at.  Then maybe start considering starting over for a third time, and do the dichlor bleach method...

[Sam]

I've seen this before and have no idea what it is.  Maybe Chemgeek can tell us what causes the "cough steam"

[Vinny]

The bleach method is just an alternative to dichlor or in some cases trichlor. It can be used in pools and hot tubs but a lot of manufacturers used to (still do?) have an issue with using anything that traditionally is not used in hot tubs (dichlor, bromine, lithium and baqua type products). There are a few pool sites that tout the BBB method, I think one of them is an offshoot from the original - at least that's where I "met" chem geek years ago. I have been using bleach in my pool for 15 years - a lot of times just exclusively using bleach.

I'm sure the link has it very in depth but basically you use dichlor until you get to about 30 PPM CYA (stabilizer) which is about 34 total PPM dichlor and then switch to bleach. You can either test for CYA or you can mentally or physically keep notes on how much dichlor you've added (this time around, mentally I had around 30 PPM CYA but measured I had around 60 ... ). It is easy and it does work well. The only problems with bleach are it's less convenient then throwing in a couple of tablespoons of dichlor and it will bleach out anything it comes into contact in it's "out of bottle" strength. I typically use dichlor during the winter and haven't had any problems (change water around now and then change it around March) but I don't use my tub 3 or more times a week either. This year I am premeasuring the bleach before I go into the tub, carry it out with me and then use it after I soak.

The bleach you need is the unscented straight bleach, some places sell splashless bleach - this is not regular bleach (I know as I made that mistake). It used to be that bleach was at 5%, then it went to 6% and now it seems to be 8.25%. As the percentage increases the less you need to add to bring your tub up to acceptable chlorine levels. I used to add about 3 oz now about 2 gives me 3 ppm.

[sksmoker]

Once you switch over to the BBB method it may get better. We had this Mineraluxe system given to us from our dealer and it turned out to be irritating to my lungs after awhile in the tub. Whatever is in that "cube" that "cleans" your tub, I don't agree with.

Once we ditched that, and switched to dichlor/bleach/borax I haven't had any issues since. I think it is healthier, but that's just my uneducated guess.

For anyone else wondering, Trichlor tabs are popular in Canada from what I have found. As this is primarily a US based forum, it would seem to be counter intuitive to use the mini tabs but most spas are sold with floaters for either bromine or chlorine pucks here. I use one, along with a few others here with no issues other than adjusting my PH more than most, due to the constant nature of the acidity of the pucks.

[amy2421]

I use chlorinating granules with my tub. We're 2 months in, on our first fill and no coughing from the steam over here. We put in the granules after using the tub and run the jets with the cover open for 20 minutes. No issues so far. Water is clear, color is good, smells good, no skin issues and no coughing. Have to make minor adjustments to the PH occasionally.

(We are also in Canada and do not use a floater or tabs/pucks.)

[chem geek]

I don't think the problem you are experiencing with Trichlor is due to CYA buildup since you haven't had it in long enough to build up too much (yet).  However, Trichlor is rather acidic and if there isn't circulation on all the time the concentrated highly chlorinated low pH water near the pucks will produce more disinfection by-products including the irritating and smelly nitrogen trichloride most associated with "bad pool smell".  There are also other nasty disinfection by-products (including cyanogen chloride).

Since you only notice the problem when running the jets, it may be nitrogen trichloride left in the water that is then getting aerated out.  If you want to continue to use Trichlor, then you can open up your spa and run the jets for 10 minutes or so before you get into the spa.  That should air out many of the volatile disinfection by-products.  Of course, if you switch to using Dichlor or Dichlor-then-bleach, then you should avoid creation of the as high a quantity of the worst disinfection by-products in the first place.

Finally, you didn't say what your Free Chlorine (FC) level was but perhaps you've got it too high.  Most people start their soak with around 1-2 ppm FC so that they don't experience as much chlorine/chloramine smell.

[Gibson00]

I think my chlorine, with the one trichlor tab, replaced every three days, has been around 6.  My Taylor kit should be arriving shortly, it just cleared customs into Canada.  I think when it gets here, I will do a partial water replacement, and start using dichlor and perhaps the switch to bleach.