Lighting around tub - ideas?

[watson524]

We were thinking of adding some LED strip lights around the outer edge of the hot tub (a J-385) tho we haven't quite figured out how to attach/conceal them since there's no real lip under the fiberglass. Anyone have any ideas? Also - I was thinking solar power if possible since there's no outlet out there. Any issues with this? Anyone done it before?

[MrLobster]

I've used the stick on LED strips in a couple of places in the house.  You'll likely want some sort of diffuser between you and the lights if they are in direct line of sight, otherwise they can be a little harsh.

Most come with a control box that takes a 12v dc input of up to 6 watts, easily delivered by a battery that can be recharged in the day from solar.  I've got 10m (33ft) of light strip running off one control box, I think that's about the limit, but that's enough to go all the way round the J385.  You would need to do something clever so the access panel can still open - from the site pictures I think that goes all the way up to the fibreglass?

The strips I've used are flexible so no trouble getting around the corners of the tub.  How about installing them closer to ground level?  There's a decent lip at that height, and you'd get a nice glow across the floor too.

[gizmodo]

I have used these in the past: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ASHQQKI

The LEDs are small, have a sticky backing and are "waterproof" if you seal the ends.  However, the controller and power supply are not so you'd have to take that into consideration.

[watson524]

I didn't think about the access panel.... maybe I will think about something around the bottom edge. We were also thinking of putting it up under the deck railing shining down to light up the deck some but as I've been reading, it's a lot more than just throwing some lights around and plugging them in.

That controller kit looks awesome tho!

Are there issues with having electricity out by the hot tub even tho it's low voltage? We used spa pads so no concrete bonded to the tub or anything.

[MrLobster]

You're probably fine with the low voltage LED lighting.  You can get extension leads for the kit from Amazon that would let you locate the battery and control box a good distance away from the tub.  Shouldn't cost more than a dollar or two.

The light strips in gizmodo's link are IP65 rated which should be good for any local building regulations.  Different manufacturers may have different ratings.  The last digit indicates the water resistance - higher numbers are better.  5 is proof against a jet of water, 4 is 'splashproof', and a rating ending 8 could be safely immersed and used in water over 1m deep.

Putting the lights under the deck railing really could be as easy as peeling the backing, sticking up the strips, and connecting to a suitable battery.  A 12v 6 amp hour battery would power the lights for 12 hours, then you could just take it indoors to recharge if you didn't want to get involved in a solar charging solution.

A couple more points on the led strips - you'll likely want SMD5050 (sometimes just called 5050) strips.  On those each LED can be cycled through all colours.  SMD3258 are usually either a fixed single colour, or separate red, green and blue lights so you don't get a nice uniform glow.

Most SMD5050 strips have all the LEDs showing the same colour at the same time, but for a little extra cost you can get strips that do multi-colour patterns and chase effects.  They often have Dream or Horse Race in the product name.  If you look on YouTube you'll find lots of examples of what they can do.

[watson524]

Thanks for the ideas. I was also thinking about some kind of rope LED lighting because I'd ideally like to have some bends and such and it seems like to put the tape ones under the railing pointing down, making a 90deg turn on the deck railing corners could be a concern. I know you can cut them and use a 90deg connector but I don't know how waterproof that is.

Anyone have an experience with rope lights? I understand they're dimmer but how much dimmer? I'm not looking to read by the light lol!

[gizmodo]

It sounds like you want to do something very similar to what we have on our deck.  Rope lights are going to be bigger.  If you get the cheap ones they will crack if you try to bend them at too small of an angle.

The ones I linked will show any color and have a lot of pre-programmed patterns, as well as the ability to program them yourself.  They can also be dimmed to your liking. 

This is a picture of them on our deck stairs.  They are tucked up inside the hand rail.



We also have them on the glass portion on the actual deck.  To get around corners I just cut the LED strips and soldered wires on.  You can buy "couplers" which would make it pretty easy.

They are resting on the glass and make the glass appear to glow.  I don't have any pictures of that, but it is a pretty neat look.

[watson524]

That looks awesome!! Yeah basically I want to go around the underneath of the handrail on the standing part of the deck, which is a total of about 55' with a gap in the one corner for the steps (I was figuring I could snake wire down the post, under the step and then come up the other side). And then whatever I do out in the grass at the hot tub.

Where did you put your control and power supply since it's not waterproof? I'm hoping to get something that is water proof but looking at all options. Also - how much length do you have? I'm reading about lights over a certain length needing another transformer. I have a few outlets right on the deck that I could snake wires up to to plug in.

[gizmodo]

The lights on the deck are on a different controller from the ones on the stairs.  I have 55 feet on one controller and 34 feet on the other.  I have switched outlets inside the house for each one and the controllers are plugged into those.  I used underground sprinkler system wire from the controller out to the deck.  Just as you're planning to do I ran the wire up the posts and out.

These lights need roughly 4.5 watts per foot.  So, 55*4.5 = 247.5.  You'll need a 12 volt power supply capable of at least that.  For powering the 55 foot run I used an old power supply out of a desktop computer.  The 12 volt rail on most any computer power supply can provide at least 300 watts.  They are fairly cheap too, the problem is they are somewhat bulky and ugly.  The other thing to keep in mind is the computer power supply won't hook directly up to the LED controller.  I opened the controller up and soldered wires from the power supply directly to the controller's board.  You don't need to do that, you could just get the appropriate barrel connector for the controller and splice that to the power supply.

It is much easier than it sounds, and if you go that route and want help I can help you and provide pictures.

[MrLobster]

That's a very impressive setup Gizmodo.  Do you power the 55ft run all from one end?  My longest run is 30 feet from one control box but the power is connected in the middle giving only 15ft each side to stay under the suggested maximums.  Also, do you sync the colours between the two runs?

Once we decide on a tub and get it installed I'll be investigating how to make the LED strips sync with the tub's own light system.  I have a feeling that's going to be far from easy.

[watson524]

Thanks for all the great info! So the controller plugs into the power source but I'm confused on why you'd need a PC PSU (tho I do have plenty laying around, in the 500w variety). I was thinking that it'd go into a 110v outlet that a transformer plugs into to drop the voltage? Or did you just use the PC PSU as your "transformer"?

You just gave me an idea tho, I can easily snake the LV wires from outside down into the basement via either the air conditioning line or next to the conduit I ran out to the disconnect box for the tub that's on the outside of the house and then do whatever I want in the basement as we have many open outlets down there and it's unfinished. But then I guess the issue becomes the controller remote won't be able to work from outside unless there's a way to use blue tooth since I should have range for that but IR like a regular remote needs line of sight. (Unless there's a phone app I might be able to make use of since I have a pretty decent Insteon system in the house).

Darnit, why do I have to have a day job that gets in the way of all the playtime??? LOL!

[gizmodo]

That's a very impressive setup Gizmodo.  Do you power the 55ft run all from one end?  My longest run is 30 feet from one control box but the power is connected in the middle giving only 15ft each side to stay under the suggested maximums.  Also, do you sync the colours between the two runs?

Once we decide on a tub and get it installed I'll be investigating how to make the LED strips sync with the tub's own light system.  I have a feeling that's going to be far from easy.

Both "circuits" are split.  For the top of the deck (the 55 foot run) I have power going up the posts on both sides of the top of the stairs.  They both run from the stairs back to the house.  Both sections of each circuit are fed from the end.  If you have a capable power supply the length shouldn't matter (within reason I suppose).

For the colors, during the winter the kids like to have the stairs red and the top of the deck green, during the rest of the year they are typically the same color, and solid.  Changing, chasing or any of that is kind of annoying.  It is neat for about a minute.

Thanks for all the great info! So the controller plugs into the power source but I'm confused on why you'd need a PC PSU (tho I do have plenty laying around, in the 500w variety). I was thinking that it'd go into a 110v outlet that a transformer plugs into to drop the voltage? Or did you just use the PC PSU as your "transformer"?

You just gave me an idea tho, I can easily snake the LV wires from outside down into the basement via either the air conditioning line or next to the conduit I ran out to the disconnect box for the tub that's on the outside of the house and then do whatever I want in the basement as we have many open outlets down there and it's unfinished. But then I guess the issue becomes the controller remote won't be able to work from outside unless there's a way to use blue tooth since I should have range for that but IR like a regular remote needs line of sight. (Unless there's a phone app I might be able to make use of since I have a pretty decent Insteon system in the house).

Darnit, why do I have to have a day job that gets in the way of all the playtime??? LOL!

The AC/DC transformer that comes with the kit I linked won't provide enough power for more than one strip so I didn't use it.  I replaced it with the computer power supply.  Breaker -> Switch -> Outlet -> PC PSU -> Controller -> Lights 

The nice thing about the controllers is that they have "memory" in the sense that if you cut power to them they "remember" the last settings and apply that when they get power back.  So, I control the outlet they are plugged in to with a switch and I don't need the remote to turn them on and off, the switch does that.  If you want the remote to work outside all you have to do is open the controller box and extend the wires for the ir sensor.  It has 3 tiny wires, and can be easily extended.  I have them outside as well, but I only change the colors with the season.  You wouldn't even need to open the controller, you could just cut the wires outside and splice a length of wire in.  If you break it you can always get a new controller for about $5 from Amazon.  They are pretty tolerant though, I've yet to wreck one and I've been known to do some pretty stupid stuff.

[MrLobster]

If you're happy messing around with electronics it's possible to drive the light strips from a Raspberry Pi or Arduino with a few extra components.  Either of those can be controlled from a phone if you get the networking right.  I've not done it yet, a couple of friends have though and I'm sure they would happily share their interface schematics and code.

[watson524]

Gizmodo - I'm going to send you a PM if you don't mind. Thinking maybe we can take this offline but in the meantime, your PSU is on all the time right? I guess it'd have to be unless you hit the switch on it if you'll be away or whatever. Did you notice a spike in the power bill at all? I wouldn't think so since the light draw is so little. I could actually change one of the outlets to an insteon controlled outlet pretty easily so I could get away with not leaving the PSU running all the time come to think of it.

[gizmodo]

If you're happy messing around with electronics it's possible to drive the light strips from a Raspberry Pi or Arduino with a few extra components.  Either of those can be controlled from a phone if you get the networking right.  I've not done it yet, a couple of friends have though and I'm sure they would happily share their interface schematics and code.

Correct, it is pretty simple logic to turn the various colors on and off.  It would be an interesting project, but at the end of the day a pre-built solution was the better option for me.

Gizmodo - I'm going to send you a PM if you don't mind. Thinking maybe we can take this offline but in the meantime, your PSU is on all the time right? I guess it'd have to be unless you hit the switch on it if you'll be away or whatever. Did you notice a spike in the power bill at all? I wouldn't think so since the light draw is so little. I could actually change one of the outlets to an insteon controlled outlet pretty easily so I could get away with not leaving the PSU running all the time come to think of it.

Both power supplies are on switched outlets.  They, and the lights they power are only on when I want them to be.  I sent you an email with this image, but I may as well post it here in case others are wondering.  If this isn't a beautiful MS Paint picture, I don't know what is.