Starting the process of learning about hot tubs and thoroughly confused

[watson524]

Hi everyone,

We've always thought about getting a hot tub but after sitting in our friend's immediately after a 10k race (we're both runners) we thought we should really move forward with looking at them and understanding what they're all about. Yesterday we went to 3 local places (I'm in Northeast PA and selection seems limited) and I think I nor have more questions than answers and I'm hoping you can help me out. I have limited experience with a commercial pool back about 20 years when my dad managed a development and I got the job of reading the test strips and cleaning the 60 or so odd filters when needed (just as a bit of background). It will mostly just be the 2 of us but we'd looking at a 6 - 8 person tub for when friends are here. I've heard some people say things rated for 8 really only comfortably fit 6 which is why we're looking for more seats that we probably need, for comfort, and my guess is no one ever says their tub is too big.

1.) I understand you have a few things going on to maintain good water quality, the sanitizer side (I'm seeing chlorine, bromine, UV, Ozone and salt as options) and then the Ph and Alkalinity size. Seems like Ph and Alkalinity get managed the same way regardless of what you choose for the sanitizer side, is that right? The first place we went to said because we live on open land and plan to put this next to our deck - for now, eventually patio/deck would be expanded to encompass the tub - and we have bears, we absolutely need to use chlorine to keep the bears away. True or not? I thought it was odd because the other 2 places (same company, 2 different locations) made no mention of this and immediately said you use Ozone. I am one of those people that are sensitive to ozone and can't use those home air filter things because the smell that they give off make me sick. I asked about this (none of the tubs were filled) and they said that's not an issue because of the way the ozone is put into the water and not the air. Can someone give me a run down on all this?

2.) Insulation.... the first place we went to had hot springs and sunrise. The other 2 places had South Seas Artesian and Sundance. First place said not having foam is better in case there's issue with repairs and showed us the green encapsulated foam "sheets" that can be replaced if need be. Second place was where we looked at a floor model Artesian and he explained about not wanting foam for the same reason as the first guy, so I thought I was all set.... last place (same company as #2) that guy said foam gives better insulation (he had all Sundance on display there and I guess sundance is foam) and repair isn't an issue. So now I'm confused. My gut tells me non foam is better for repair purposes but then the 3rd guy said that you have less repairs with the solid foam because things are so encapsulated and don't shift around with use and vibration. Seemed odd that the same company, 2 different people had such wildly differing opinions, makes me think they were just selling to the floor models they had so I was hoping for an unbiased opinion.

3.) Shell - the guy in place #3 showed us the thickness of a sundance shell but in place #2 the guy said the Artesian has a lifetime warranty on the shell. Is thickness something we really need to think about? Obviously if it "gave" when we got in it dry, I would give it a second thought, but assuming none are THAT thin, is this more about the warranty?

4.) Pumps.... I've done some reading here about "how many pumps are enough" and the wet test is really important - haven't even gotten that far yet - but in general, do all systems have diverters which as I understand is to maybe push more water flow to where you're sitting? Also it looks like most have "air inlet dials" where you get more air mixed with the water jet coming out for a different field? The one guy mentioned the air comes from the outside so you're injecting cold air into your tub and why would you want to do that..... uh.... in theory that makes sense but in practice? Also, I see some mention dual speed pumps and some just listed as circulation pumps. What are the difference? Aren't all pumps circulating the water?

5.) Jets - one of our friends has a PDC and it has over 100 jets but I found out half of those are air only. What's the point of air only jets and are they needed or is this strictly personal preference?

6.) Covers - the covers that come with floor models, are they ok or is it really worth it to get a better cover? Seems like some were throwing in a cover lifter, others not. But I see why one is needed. I do think I like the kind that go under the tub for the lifter vs attaching to the side (I'm adverse to holes in things just like on my boat).

7.) Service/delivery - the 3 places we've gone to so far seem to only deliver and can put it on a pad if they can get to it, we live on open land so that's not an issue. Doesn't seem like they want to do a teaching session or anything which I find odd. I know I have to run the 220v electrical which is no problem for us but I'd have thought they'd at least want to fill it, check things, maybe give a run through on how things work. Is that typical or am I expecting too much?

I know that's a lot of questions but I figured these would help me get better grounded while we were looking.

Thanks in advance!

[Tman122]

Hi everyone,

1.) I understand you have a few things going on to maintain good water quality, the sanitizer side (I'm seeing chlorine, bromine, UV, Ozone and salt as options) and then the Ph and Alkalinity size. Seems like Ph and Alkalinity get managed the same way regardless of what you choose for the sanitizer side, is that right? The first place we went to said because we live on open land and plan to put this next to our deck - for now, eventually patio/deck would be expanded to encompass the tub - and we have bears, we absolutely need to use chlorine to keep the bears away. True or not? I thought it was odd because the other 2 places (same company, 2 different locations) made no mention of this and immediately said you use Ozone. I am one of those people that are sensitive to ozone and can't use those home air filter things because the smell that they give off make me sick. I asked about this (none of the tubs were filled) and they said that's not an issue because of the way the ozone is put into the water and not the air. Can someone give me a run down on all this?

2.) Insulation.... the first place we went to had hot springs and sunrise. The other 2 places had South Seas Artesian and Sundance. First place said not having foam is better in case there's issue with repairs and showed us the green encapsulated foam "sheets" that can be replaced if need be. Second place was where we looked at a floor model Artesian and he explained about not wanting foam for the same reason as the first guy, so I thought I was all set.... last place (same company as #2) that guy said foam gives better insulation (he had all Sundance on display there and I guess sundance is foam) and repair isn't an issue. So now I'm confused. My gut tells me non foam is better for repair purposes but then the 3rd guy said that you have less repairs with the solid foam because things are so encapsulated and don't shift around with use and vibration. Seemed odd that the same company, 2 different people had such wildly differing opinions, makes me think they were just selling to the floor models they had so I was hoping for an unbiased opinion.

3.) Shell - the guy in place #3 showed us the thickness of a sundance shell but in place #2 the guy said the Artesian has a lifetime warranty on the shell. Is thickness something we really need to think about? Obviously if it "gave" when we got in it dry, I would give it a second thought, but assuming none are THAT thin, is this more about the warranty?

4.) Pumps.... I've done some reading here about "how many pumps are enough" and the wet test is really important - haven't even gotten that far yet - but in general, do all systems have diverters which as I understand is to maybe push more water flow to where you're sitting? Also it looks like most have "air inlet dials" where you get more air mixed with the water jet coming out for a different field? The one guy mentioned the air comes from the outside so you're injecting cold air into your tub and why would you want to do that..... uh.... in theory that makes sense but in practice? Also, I see some mention dual speed pumps and some just listed as circulation pumps. What are the difference? Aren't all pumps circulating the water?

5.) Jets - one of our friends has a PDC and it has over 100 jets but I found out half of those are air only. What's the point of air only jets and are they needed or is this strictly personal preference?

6.) Covers - the covers that come with floor models, are they ok or is it really worth it to get a better cover? Seems like some were throwing in a cover lifter, others not. But I see why one is needed. I do think I like the kind that go under the tub for the lifter vs attaching to the side (I'm adverse to holes in things just like on my boat).

7.) Service/delivery - the 3 places we've gone to so far seem to only deliver and can put it on a pad if they can get to it, we live on open land so that's not an issue. Doesn't seem like they want to do a teaching session or anything which I find odd. I know I have to run the 220v electrical which is no problem for us but I'd have thought they'd at least want to fill it, check things, maybe give a run through on how things work. Is that typical or am I expecting too much?

I know that's a lot of questions but I figured these would help me get better grounded while we were looking.

Thanks in advance!

Sanitizer....yes you need one, it's easy enough to switch if one doesn't work like you expected.

Insulation....yes you need some. Don't let leaks and the insulation design decide for you. Comfort with the dealer and the tub on your butt.

Shells.....they all last for as long as the tub and carry a lifetime warranty. Choose a quality manufacturer. Seems your looking at some.

Pumps....don't let HP figures skew your head. Wet test.

Jets.....ditto above.

Lifter....seems like your on the right track. I wouldn't pay for an upgrade until the second one. The tub will last for a few covers if it's from a quality manufacturer.

Service/Delivery.....a quick run down after a fill is customary. Choose a dealer who offers it. Ask.

[watson524]

Went to a dealer today that sold Viking and Four Winds. To be honest, tho they didn't have a flashy show room and all, they took a lot of time with us, had us crawl around in various tubs after asking us some questions on usage and whatnot and recommending certain ones. We're actually going to wet test one of the Viking ones - Tradition-  on Friday. It's got an interesting "lounger" configuring where it's not full lounger but let's you sit sidewise in 2 areas if you want and get the back and feet. The woman thought it was a good compromise since we are debating about the lounger. The thing that REALLY got me about this place was that they do full set up, wire it up (you have to have the wire ready but she said they're happy to talk to our electrician with any questions - we'd actually be doing the electrical work tho), they fill it, get it going, get the chemicals in it and give us a "spa school" lesson. I don't know a thing about the brands of tubs and based on pricing my guess is they're not top of the line but honestly, the fact that they're not just curb side delivery gives them an edge in my mind. She explained that you have ozone but you still add chlorine as needed, the ozone just means you don't use as much and if you're away, the water won't go completely south with no chemicals going in it.

She mentioned both of these are full foam but it's a soft cell vs the hard cell that has to be chipped out?

Still so many questions.... would love to hear anyone else's thoughts on my questions.

thanks!

[MarKee]

I would also check out Marquis Spas, they should have a dealer in your area.

[wmccall]

First of all, welcome to the forum.   This might be your best step in understanding the hot tub world.  I was going to ask if you are from the town of North East, Pennsylvania or from North Eastern PA!   Ironically North East, PA is in Northwest, PA.   But you mentioned bears, so I am guessing you are in North Eastern PA 

[watson524]

Yep Northeast PA between Scranton and Stroudsburg. As for a Marquis Dealer, looks like the closest is just over an hour away. Not sure how they feel about a service range that wide but I can email them and ask. Seems like they sell pools, spas, pond supplies and house decorations based on their website.

[Spatech_tuo]

Yep Northeast PA between Scranton and Stroudsburg. As for a Marquis Dealer, looks like the closest is just over an hour away. Not sure how they feel about a service range that wide but I can email them and ask. Seems like they sell pools, spas, pond supplies and house decorations based on their website.

Yes an hour distance is a bit much but you can always ask how much they charge for coming out (yes, even under warranty they can charge a trip charge, especially at that distance). Check out all the top spa maker websites and use their dealer locators to see who is in your area, you never know who might be local. Take your time and shop them all then wet test your favorite spas/dealers.

[watson524]

Thanks for the advice. The odd thing I'm finding of our local dealers on the "top" spa brands is they want to just do driveway drop off and that's it. That just seems very odd to me and makes me very uncomfortable. We're going to try to look down towards Stroudsburg more to see how they are, Hot Spring, Caldera and Bahama down there, as far as service/setup.

[Quickbeam]

We bought our tub from a dealer who is about 1 1/2 hours away. I have a written agreement with them that for the first year they will not charge any travel time and after that I think it is a flat rate of 2 hours, but they will do their best to use a local technician so there would not be any travel time. Maybe you could work out something like this?

[DaveMc]

A Listing of the top 3 to 5 brands would be helpful but I haven't found one!  I think Sundance and Hot Springs would be in there---2nd most important item is the dealer---reputation---ability and helpfulness---I looked for an old guy in business 5 years or longer---newbysa come and go.

[watson524]

Given what I'm seeing of dealers around me, not having one of the top brands is being outweighed by the service of the "lower brand" company. It's really that startling the difference. The idea of not being charged for someone further away is interesting but so far even "farther away" wants to dump and run.

[Quickbeam]

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “dump and run”? When we bought our tub, we had it delivered and set in place. It was up to us to get the electrical hook up. Because we were 1 1/2 hours away, the dealer went through different chemical options, how to maintain the spa, etc. in their showroom. Is there something else you are looking for?

The other thing I should say is not to be scared off by all this. It really is not rocket science. It can seem pretty overwhelming when you are first looking, but it does not take that long to get comfortable with maintaining the spa.

My best advice would be to get a name brand spa with a good reputation that you are comfortable in (wet test) from a dealer you are comfortable with.

[watson524]

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “dump and run”?

Basically most places are looking to drop it off in the driveway and go. Some said if they can easily get to where we want it, they can place it (we have a wide open yard so that's not an issue). While I understand we have to have the electrical run, only one place said anything about actually hooking it up from our wires to the tub, filling it, checking it over after its filled and taking us through "spa school". The rest of them are basically in the "dump and run" business from what I can gather based on conversations with us. The one place I'm so far comfortable with said most issues will pop up within 30 minutes of filling and running as fittings can shift in transport etc and that's why they want to see it filled, check everything etc. which makes perfect sense to me.

[Quickbeam]

I guess I’m not sure what the normal procedure is. I can only go by what happened with us, and by your definition I suppose it was close to “dump and run”. Through the dealer we arranged for delivery. As we put our tub on a roof deck we also needed to get it lifted in place. We paid for the crane, but arranged it through the dealer. I should also mention that there was no upcharge for this. We paid what the crane operator charged - the dealer got nothing extra from this. It was our electrician, not the dealer, who hooked the tub up. And certainly no one waited around while we filled the tub.
Having said all the above, I believe our tub may have been delivered this way because the dealer was so far away from us. I’m not 100% sure, but I think I remember them saying something to the effect that normally they would go over chemicals, etc. with us when the spa was delivered, but because we were so far away they would only do this in the showroom.
It all worked out fine for us but it is possible that ours was a “unique” experience because of our distance from the dealer. And just so you know, the reason we went with a dealer so far away was that we really liked this dealer and they were selling a tub that we really liked (we bought the Jacuzzi J-345).

[watson524]

Thanks for your perspective, it's good to know that your feelings towards the dealer (and the tub model itself) is what drove you to do it. Comfort with the dealer is important to me and the other interesting thing I found is that the few dealers we've talked to that do the "dump and run" ALSO don't do service, they farm it out. Not sure if that's the norm or not but struck me as odd.