Leaky tub

[Quickbeam]

And to say don't buy a well insulated tub next time so you won't have this trouble is ridiculous. So buy a non foamed in tub and spend twice as much on power to run it and have it last for 10 years less. Yep good plan.

Agree with Tman - the rants against full foamed tubs are also getting a little tiresome.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Not to split hairs, but ...aka splitting hairs :-)

Depends on how YOU chose to read it and where you chose to put inflection and/or sarcasm.

[Quickbeam]

Come on Dr. Spa. It’s nothing to do with how I read the post. The post is clear. It says “Wow---we can call this the Mickey Mouse forum now”. That’s a direct quote. So YOU read it how YOU want. I’ll read what it actually says.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I read it as sarcasm... and find it a bit amusing 

[Quickbeam]

I didn’t read it that way, but that’s O.K. We can just agree to disagree.

[Kev B]

Not to split hairs, but he didn't call it a "Mickey Mouse Repair". He called the entire forum "Mickey Mouse".
[/quote]

 I am new in here, I would like to see this forum give pro advise and not be afraid to tell someone the real deal....you all will notice this guy said he has found 10 more leaks since his initial post. Mickey Mouse advise will hurt the forum.
 I have been out of the field for a few weeks so I found this forum and I like it a lot.
  Oh, and about full foam tubs....they still suck, but I will take the money in labor....been doing since the 80's and I am about to dig into another Hot Springs which has a shattered manifold this Saturday. 100.00 in parts....lot's in labor. Many so-called repairmen run away from these jobs.

[Kev B]

I read it as sarcasm... and find it a bit amusing 

 Dr.Spa,
 You are the kind of people I associate with, professionals that are not timid about their opinion...based on experience and lot's of blood sweat and tears. And I am sure you are like me....as soon as someone makes a real point, I will be happy to concede if I am wrong.
 

[umjorge2]

In terms of the foam I've torn out (which isn't the entire tub but only where the leaks are), does anybody know how I should replace that? If possible I would like to make those areas somewhat accessible in the future but I don't want to loose any heating efficiency it had before. Efficiency/insulation is the most important thing I'm concerned with, since I'm from Winnipeg Canada and I need not say more about how brutal our winters get!

[umjorge2]

Also comments on this kind of repair? http://atlanta.spaxpert.com/difficult-spa-hot-tub-leaks.html

[clovett]

Appreciate all the replies. Here's where I'm at so far. I have discovered even more leaks, around 10 in total mostly the same kind of leak I initially described, including a nail that was driven through a section of flex pipe! The things you find when you rip something apart! There is a massive amount of foam to get through and I have to figure out how to put all the wood skirting I've cut back together. Its a huge pain but its gotta be done. Can't deal with leaks in the middle of winter with subfreezing temperatures almost everyday for 5 months. My plan is to seal around every join I can access with a special PVC sealer/epoxy I got from a plumbing store made to fix leaks and even seal the ones that aren't leaking that I've exposed to preventatively stop any future leaks. My tub doesn't have a ton of jets so I'm probably addressing almost half of the joining sections, so I'm hoping that will work. I am running out of time as winter is approaching here in Canada so I need to act fast and need to go with the repair that is the most effective but at the same time the least time consuming. As much as I would like to completely overhaul the plumbing, as I know that would be the proper fix, there just isn't enough time and its not worth it for an old tub either I feel.

Once I'm done with that I need to figure out how to replace the foam I've torn out. I want to use the same type that was in there which was a closed cell spray foam but its expensive. Any ideas/recommendations how to replace foam you've torn out?

While I got blasted for saying you could probably fix A LEAK with plast-aid the people suggesting that your tub was made with faulty glue are probably correct.  That is a LOT of leaks.

And what if there's a disagreement over how a repair is done? If one pro through experience, feels plastaid is a hit or miss bandaid, how should they respond to someone suggesting it? Should someone spend 20 minutes of their time (which they're NOT getting paid for, BTW), typing out a FULL explanation about their knowledge, experience and why they think it's a mickey moused repair?

Personally, I think it's a mickey mouse repair, that may or may not work, on a spa that was made during a time when PVC glue was known to be bad, where even now, more and more leaks are being discovered. Would I use plastaid? Sure, if it was going in an area that could be constantly monitored. In an area that's going to be refoamed, sealed in and  and hidden? NO WAY IN HE%%! There are some people that firmly believe, if you're going to do it at all, do it right.

I didn't see Kev B disagree over how a repair is done, I just saw him say the glue is giving up and todays tubs don't have those issues.  A poor statement at best just indicating he "spoke" and you "best listen".  And true to that anyone else that said something else he tried to belittle them. 

I didn't read anything about the area being re-foamed from the op.  Some people do re-foam the repaired area some don't but for a single jet repair on your own tub I find a product like Plast-aid an acceptable risk.  If it didn't work I could then do the full repair.  If I was a contractor working on someone else's tub I would never do anything but the full repair because that is what they would be paying for.  I'm just offering the same thought process I use for my own work on my stuff as this forum doesn't seem to be for contractors working on customers tubs but for individuals working on their own stuff.  If I want to try a short cut on MY stuff I consider that my risk and my business. 

Nobody need do what I do, I am just offering suggestions.  But I fixed my pump when I was told to get another one.  I fixed my electronics by replacing my molex connector when nobody else seemed to have seen such a problem although it is probably a common issue on most Sundance tubs.  I ran my own 220 although it seems to be stressed to have an electrician do it.  After all it's extremely complicated because it has (dare I say it) TWO hot wires.  OMG I let the cat out of the bag now everyone knows.

This is NOT rocket science

[DaveMc]

Youy know we hjust gave op on a 20 yr old "creative  energy" heat exchanger  tub because we could not find a techy to repair the computer card that tolod the motors when to turn on and off---it was a great tub--but sometimes old needs to bew replaced by new----if this guy has a tub 17 yrs old and more than 10 leaks---he should scrape ALL crap off and repair EVERY glued joint---or he may be doing it over time the rest of his life

[clover]

Years of experience tells me that water always wins.  You either fix it right the first time, or you can repeatedly address the issue until you do it right.

[umjorge2]

Well I spent the weekend getting the leaks fixed. I used weld-on 810 and globbed it good around every joint I could find, leaking or not. This stuff is suppose to withstand pressure and is made for leaks so I need to go by good faith that this will solve the problem. Here's what I used http://www.weldon.com/pdf/weldon/WeldOn_pb_810_2013.pdf. One trick I used is I stuck a vacuum inside a jet to create a suction near any leak so that it would suck in any epoxy into the joint. Don't know if it did but it doesn't hurt to try. Any who theres just no way I could repair the leaks by cutting out the flex tubes. They are so old and stiff its impossible to work with. I tried to fix the nail hole leak by cutting the pipe and putting a coupler on and I wish I didn't. It was an absolute nightmare to deal with and not I'm not sure if its on right. How on earth am I suppose to bend the pipe enough to slip on the coupler? I found that out the hard way anyways. I heated up the pipe too but it was still very hard to move and felt like I was going to break something any moment.

Just letting the epoxy cure then its time to fill the tub and hope for the best! One other kind of leak I came across was around a jet housing. The silicone that was there had come loose and was leaking where the pipe meets the tub shell. I removed the jet wall fitting (the piece that threads into the jet housing) to get at the area. What type of sealant should I use there? The same silicone that was there before? Heres a photo.

[clover]

umjorge2, welcome to the service world that we all find challenging.  Yes, as age advances, flex hose becomes rigid and there is no flex.  The best way to apply a coupler would be to remove as much as the flex hose as you can to give you the flexibility of applying the coupler.  As you may have discovered, not all applications are simple.  As simple as repairs may look, it is a mental process also when working in tight spaces with multiple connections like tee's and manifolds.

As for the jet housing that you have pictured, I would suggest a new jet body be used, as it will be very difficult to close the stress/age crack. 

While this may not be the case in your particular situation, things of this nature can be caused by filling a hot tub with hot water causing thermal affects to plastic parts.  I once experienced a tub leak at the light fitting that I never experienced before.  The nut holding the fitting to the shell literally cracked and released the tension holding it tight.  When I discussed my discovery with the owner, I learned that he would fill it with the inside hose coming from the hot water tap.  That water is around 112 degrees or more, and thermal affects can soften the tensile strength of plastic, causing the nut to snap, as in this situation.

My response to all regarding the life expectancy of a hot tub is 20 years.  The only thing that causes a tub to be at the end of its life is: 1) the potential of a crack in the shell which I have never witness in 30 years, or, 2) plumbing failures that lead to discovery of multiple leaks caused by age.

I believe you are approaching that 20 year time frame.  You have made valiant efforts to solve the problem, and hopefully you have added some life back to the hot tub, only time will tell.

[umjorge2]

Thanks for the advice. There isn't a crack its a just a gap where the old silicone use to be. The wall fitting is suppose to suck in the pipe against the tub shell when its tightened with silicone there but I'm wondering what silicone to use.