Hot tub causing me lung problems, I think

[Rolacoy]

I have it running again, the garage is open and I will try it tonight and see how it is with more ventilation. I would really like to keep it, but all this chemistry is getting me down. I am an artist not a chemist. I don't know, I am discouraged with the whole mess. We bought it used for $1500.00 and can probably sell it for that much. It's in really good shape. It's a three person hot tub. If I sold it I could put a jetted tub in the house for about that much and have fresh water every time I used it.

But, like I said I want to keep the hot tub, it feels so goo in the winter. We will take our trip, drain the water and try the bromine once more. Then try chlorine, if that does't work I'll just have to sell the thing.

[Vinny]

So here's a problem - you are going to use a tub with bad chemical readings, a scum line and cloudy - NOT GOOD!!! You probably WILL have a reaction. I would not go into that water if it were me.

It's OK to be an artist and you don't need to be a chemist. You came to the right place and we are trying to help you ... the problem may be you didn't have the correct knowledge to begin with. And everybody's water is different, I can do something with my water and it doesn't work for someone else. But the idea is getting the knowledge of what does work and perfecting it - it becomes easier.

Did you read the link on how to use bromine?

Find out what the readings are from the water coming out of the tap. Before adding anything you need to know where you started and where you need to go. Here's a link to a presentation from Taylor: http://www.njeha.org/Past%20Atlantic%20City%20Conference/2011%20Conference/2011%20-%20Conference%20Presentations/Basic%20Water%20Chemistry%20&%20Testing-%20Taylor%20Technologies.pdf   It is about the terminology and ranges of everything you need to know - you don't need to study it you just need to get an idea of what you are shooting for.

Make sure you have the correct chemicals - 11 bottles of "stuff" is a lot but without knowing what that stuff is - we can't guide you.

Hang in there, there are a lot of good and knowledgeable people here and hopefully we'll make your tub experience better!

[Rolacoy]

Sorry, I don't mean to whine. I did read the bromine link. I did check the "raw" water when we filled it last, but I did not write it down, I will this time. OK I will stay out and dump the water in the morning. All the 11 bottles of stuff are, Bromine, PHup, PHdown, Alkalinity Plus, defoamer, SilkySpa, Shock, Clarifier, Enzyme Cleaner, Non-Foaming Algicide, Calcium Increaser, and Filter cleaner. A lot these came with the tub and I haven't used them and some I bought at the recommendation of the spa dealers.

Thanks for the help.

[Vinny]

No need to apologize and you're not whining, you're frustrated and I understand. I had a pool for a few years before getting the tub and like you said it was much easier. I thought I knew it all with the pool - WRONG! I have to do things differently with the tub's water then the pool water and the water comes from the same tap! So I learned the difference and live happily with both.

So based on my limited knowledge of bromine, I think you need a bromine starter. I believe that the starter builds a reserve for the bromine that you add whenever (daily?).

PH plus & down -  usage depends on where your starting water is and where it goes as you use the tub.

Alkalinity Plus - I use baking soda which is basically the same thing. I have to raise the alkalinity in my tub for the PH to stay somewhat constant, for some people they have to lower it. You may or may not need this.

Algaecide - you don't need this at all in a spa.

Calcium increaser - may or may not need this depending on tap. I don't use calcium increaser at all in my spa. I believe that low calcium is only bad for plaster (ANYBODY FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME ON THIS).

Defoamer - only need this if foaming gets bad. Since you go in without suits, you may not need this unless the silky spa causes foaming. Scooping out foam with a pool skimmer works well ... may be a little hard in a garage though.

Clarifier - only need it if the tub doesn't look clear and you only need a small amount. This will cause foaming.

Enzyme cleaner - if this is the type for "normal use" then you probably don't need it. I used to use it and honestly I don't think it did anything. If this is for cleaning the tub's plumbing then it could be beneficial.

Silky spa - if it makes your skin feel better then use it,  just realize that anything added to the water affects the water and could make the amount of time to a refill a lot shorter, may cause foaming, may cause cloudiness or cause one of the other parameters to do something.

Filter cleaner - this can cause foaming big time! If it isn't rinsed out extremely well you'll get foam.

Shock - can either be chlorine or non chlorine. If it is the Calcium Hypochlorite don't use it. Non chlorine shock is potassium monopersulfate and if this is what you have then you're good to go. If you want to use chlorine as a shock then buy the sodium dichlor.

Before adding any bromine to the tub you need to know what the other parameters of the water are. If you need to increase or decrease - add stuff a little at a time. It's better to add then to over shoot.

Unfortunately, the people who should know don't and they give you the wrong answers. I remember going into a pool store because the stabilizer level in my pool was close to 100 (it should be about 30) and the pool people were like "nah, it's OK , that's what we shoot for"; the correct answer is to drain and refill to get rid of the CYA.

BTW, my tub hasn't had ozone in it for the past 7 1/2 years. I personally don't think it adds that much to sanitizing water and it also off gases into the air that you may be breathing. If your tub has ozone that may be a culprit to your problems as well. It may not be working since you said you bought the tub used ... the ozone units only last a finite number of hours and then stop working.

[Rolacoy]

I went to the doctor today and the doctor took a specimen. I took a water specimen with me to a Spa place, they were closed. Did I get them mixed up, no no no, I don't think so. The doctor said the specimen looked good, the Spa place was closed.

Wee are leaving town tomorrow for a few days so I will wait till I get back to deal with. the hot tub. thanks for the help, I will be back in touch.

[Rolacoy]

I have been working with the water that I have today. We are leaving town for 4 or 5 days and I didn't want to leave it empty. the calcium deposits that I have got to scrub out might get harder. Ok, so if the PH is high I have to add acid. I have been adding PH reducer to today just to see what I can do with it. I still plan to dump it, clean the tub and start over when we return home. I think that I will be near a spa place tomorrow. My wife has a dr appt. I will take some water with me.

[clover]

If you have calcium build up, do not drain your water, but lower the pH to the 6.4 to 6.6 which is lower than normal.  This will allow some of the calcium to be pulled back into the water while you are gone, and then drain the spa when you return. 

If calcium is in the shell it is inside the plumbing also, and we want to pull it back into the water before you drain the water to eliminate the calcium build up problem.  You do not want to drain and empty the spa allowing the calcium to dry and adhere to the shell and other parts of the spa both internal and external.

You are on well water, and you do not pay attention to what the water chemistry should be.  pH out of whack is going to give you gas off the water and that is why you wife is experiencing the breathing issues, and with calcium building up, you are not using stain and scale to prevent the calcium accumulation.

Owning a spa, using it, and enjoying it should be like a walk in the park.  Once you get acquainted to what to pay attention to, i.e. pH, Alkalinity, proper water care etc. this should really be easy, but you are not noticing or changing any of the problems that occur.  The water should always be sparkling clean, crystal clear, with an invitation to drink.  You should not see cloudy water, yellow or green water; it should be "clean and clear", without any odor or smell.

Please lower your pH before leaving town, so it will soften while you are gone, and then drain it and refill it when you return and we will help in getting it set up and off to a good start. 

[Rolacoy]

The calcium build-up happened as soon as we started using "The Frog". So from what you say for some reason the PH must have got high and the calcium came out of solution and stuck to the tub. I will do what you say, I was hoping I would not have to scrub it all off.

[Rolacoy]

I put more PH reducer and it seems to be leaching the calcium back into the water. I let the jets run to get a good mix, but it's off now. It sure smelled up the garage. I have the back door and both drive thru doors up. I am watching a movie, another 30 minutes, the air should be clear by then.

[dunecritter]

Clovers post is right on...Good advice!

[Rolacoy]

This morning the PH was off the chart low PH and the calcium is gone, great! I added some PH Plus and ot it too high. Added some PH reducer and have got it at about 7.4. We are going to the doctor and I will take a sample, in fact I will take two, because there are two Spa companies close to where we will be.

I still plan to dump the water when we return home. This has been my chemistry lesson.

[clover]

Rolocoy, we are all good people here, and so are you.  But, now we have to make you more knowledgable on water management.  This can be really easy, like riding a bike once you get the hang of it.

Hot Tubs are to be enjoyed, and in your case it has become a source of unwanted issues.  When you return, drain the water, come back to us so we can "establish" clean and clear water enjoyment.  Your problem in the past has been your assumption that it will take care of itself while you use and enjoy.  When you get your water tested and 2 different places, pick up some "dip strips" for your personal use at home.

This is simply a water management issue.  It is about the sweat, oils, and lotions that you and your wife leave behind.  If the water is clean and clear when you use it, as it should be, you will be the first to notice it when it changes or smells, and now it will be your job to ask us why, and how to proceed.  This should be really easy, if you relax and let us help. 

Ask all the questions you want, even old dogs like me learn new tricks, but we need to help you get a "new" start that will help both you and your wife to enjoy the comforts of hot water.

Enjoy your travels, and check in when you get back

[Vinny]

I'm glad to see that clover was able to help!

I missed that you are on well water and that your tub was full of scale.

And I agree what clover said in the last post.

[Rolacoy]

Sorry, for the misunderstanding we are on City water, not well water. I worked at trying to get the PH right before we left town. We took two samples to two different spa places and had the water tested.

Place A: PH-7.7, TA-115, Calcium hardness- 200, Bromine-0.

Place B: PH-7.5, TA-20ppm, Hardness-120ppm, Bromine-1.5ppm

Place A recommended that I switch to a Hydrogen Peroxide based water system. He said it would eliminate the fumes that are bothering my lungs. He said it worked good for hot tubs, but was too expensive for pools. It would cost me about $60.00 to switch.
Place told not to use Hydrogen Peroxide, that it was for pools.

[Rolacoy]

I am draining the hot tub and all of the calcium deposits are gone. Dropping the PH way down sucked it back into the water. I will clean it up this afternoon after I have had a nap. Then I will refill it with water. Once I have done that I plan to take a sample back to the spa people and see how the tap water tests. I want to try the Frog again. For one reason I still have two of the bromine cartridges. I think from what you all have told me the calcium deposit was caused by the wrong kind a shock and letting the PH get too high.