Sundance Cameo on 50 amp Service???

[Quickbeam]

My wife and I are just starting the process of looking for our first hot tub. We haven't yet been to many dealers and have not done any wet testing, as we have been busy doing some reno's in our home. I have however been doing a lot of research online.

I know I need to wet test, but one tub I am definitely interested in is the Sundance Cameo. From what I can see on the website, the layout looks almost perfect for our situation. Whatever tub we get will be going in the corner of a roof deck. We have a view of a lake, and I would like the tub situated so we can take maximum advantage of that view. The Cameo does all that.

The only thing is, when we built this cabin we told the electrician we wanted a hot tub on the deck and he wired it for us, but I have now found out he wired it for 50 amp service. I have talked to the electrician about it, and we could get 60 amp service, but it would mean drilling a hole somewhere in the basement, running conduit up the side of the house, etc., etc. In other words it can be done, but it will probably be a lot of work. Haven't talked to him yet about costs.

I searched this forum and found some  advice saying if you have the choice, definitely go with 60 amp service and found a couple of others who were running their tub on 50 amp service and said they didn't notice not having the 60 amps.

I know I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse with this, as we haven't even wet tested the tub yet, but I like to do my research ahead of time.

So, if any of you can help me with this, what will I be missing on the Cameo with just the 50 amp service? I read somewhere that if you run all the pumps the heater will shut off. By this I am assuming I would at least be able to run all the pumps with the 50 amp service??? Is just having the 50 amp. service a big inconvenience? If anyone can give me any advice or guidance on this it would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[Tman122]

If there is only one jet pump, a circ pump and a heater the 50 amps will run it. But if there are 2 pumps 60 amps may be required to run both pumps and the heater at the same time. Look at the electrical specs of the tub or ask the dealer.

[rin-spa-aic]

50 and 60 amp are commonly run with 6 gage wire.  Cant you just change out the breaker(s) to 60amp and change the connections at the tub 60 amp (if it's even required on your specific model).

My setup has a 60amp breaker on the main panel running to a spa sub-panel with 60amp GFCI breaker.
That's about $90 in parts (if memory serves) and less than half an hour of labor.

So I think you need a second opinion on how to upgrade the service. I'm skeptical running new wire would be required.

[Water Boy]

I got this from the Sundance owners manual on line. It appears you can wire it with a 50 or 60 amp GFCI. Here is what is says:


In 50A configuration, the heaterwill not operate while both pumps are operating at high speed.
Note: pump 2 runs only in high speed.
**
In 30A configuration, the heaterwill not operate while either pump is running in high speed or if the air blower is running. Note: pump 2 runs only in high speed.

In 60A configuration, the heater will operate at the same time as the high speed of both pumps and the air blower.

Note: Not applicable for
1-pump Capri models.

http://www.sundancespas.com/Communications/InstructionManuals/2001850.pdf

[Water Boy]

50 and 60 amp are commonly run with 6 gage wire.  Cant you just change out the breaker(s) to 60amp and change the connections at the tub 60 amp (if it's even required on your specific model).

My setup has a 60amp breaker on the main panel running to a spa sub-panel with 60amp GFCI breaker.
That's about $90 in parts (if memory serves) and less than half an hour of labor.

So I think you need a second opinion on how to upgrade the service. I'm skeptical running new wire would be required.

I agree. I am no expert, but if the wiring was ran with 6 gauge, all you should need to do is change out the breaker size. But, I am guessing maybe they used a lighter gauge wire since they are recommending re-doing it.

I really wouldn't be too concerned running the spa on a 50 amp breaker if it were me. There may be times when it is really windy that the spa wont keep up with the temperature. But, I would say most of the time it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

[Quickbeam]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses. I had done an online search before I put this posting up, and had read that 6 guage wire could be used for 60 amp. I then phoned and asked my electrician if he was absolutely sure we would need to re-wire for the 60 amp service and he said by our electrical code he would need to re-wire. I'm not an electrician so I didn't get into specifics with him, but he is a good electrician and I think I am going to trust what he is telling me.

Again, I would be very interested to hear from anyone who actually has either this tub or another Sundance or Jacuzzi tub that has the 60 amp setting but is only running it on 50 amps. Do you find that you are missing anything with running it on 50 amps? And as always, any other thoughts are much appreciated.

[mjb]

I have owned a couple of different Sundance Spas here in cold Columbus, Ohio
and had the 50A set up both times.  If I needed a boost in temp., all I had to do
was to turn off one of the jet pumps and the heater responded quickly to get
back into a comfortable range. 

[clover]

With years of experience, I can assure you, 50 amp service is fully adequate.  It is only a question in your mind right now to do the right thing, but 50 amp service is fully adequate for your spa, UNLESS you are a party person and expect to have this beast runing 1 to 2 hours with the cover open in the depth of winter, and multiple people in the spa.

In other words, you, and your family, will not realize the absense of 60 amp service, and when you get the cost of 6 ga. copper and the labor to do it, while abandoning the cost of what has already been provided, you will be astounded.

In detail, if each pump 1 & 2 pull 12 to 13 amps, that does not leave room for another 22 amps to run the heater and remain within the limits of the 50 amp breaker, as your circ pump is possibly runnig as well.  The idea that you will need the heater to be on during normal use of the spa during winter conditions is unlikely.  If it happens once in your lifetime, turn one of the pumps off and the heater is on.

If you are a party animal, and plan the use of the tub in excess, below freezing temperatures, then consider it, but that would make you "not normal". 

If you have unlimited resources, don't need to balance your checkbook, and you are going to lose sleep over this issue go ahead and do it, as it will remove the question from your mind.

[richierich]

I have the Sundance Optima and it's wired on 50 amp service. I have never needed to have the heater going when both pumps are running. We can get in the tub at 103 degrees and run both pumps for 20 min. and never lose more than 2 degrees in temp. We tub for about 1/2 hour usually. If you planned on staying in the tub an hour or more it is not likely that you would want both pumps (all the jets) on the whole time. You can always turn off one pump and the heater will come on. Save your money and stick with 50 amps.

[Quickbeam]

Thanks so much for all your replies. I feel a whole lot better about the 50 amp service now and I'll just stick with it. If I find that for some reason it's not enough, then I can always upgrade later. And all this of course, is IF we end up with the Cameo. That is not a sure thing as we haven't even wet tested yet. Thanks again.

[Pers Onal]

Whatever tub we get will be going in the corner of a roof deck.

Not something you asked about, but was that roof deck initially designed to withstand the additional load of a Hot tub?

Most normal decking situations will require additional support of some type, and a corner location might require particular attention to structural loads.

you're talking right at 4700 lbs. Not all roof decks will support that much of a load in an 7.5 ft by 7.5 ft area.

That's more than a number of automobiles weigh.

[Quickbeam]

Thanks for the concern, but we are good. We are engineered to 5,000 pounds. That includes the weight of the tub and the water.

[Mudheadsports]

Ok, we just christened our cameo last night.  Our dealer told us that you could use 50 amp service but 60 was best.  You can't run heater and both pumps all sting the same time.  I'll double check the owners manual later today just to verify.  I can tell you that we were outside in 29 degrees in the snow temp had been set at 101 and had dropped slightly to 99 in an hour.  That was with the heater still running. 
Good luck on your search!!!!!!!

[Mudheadsports]

Wiring cost.......$1800.00

[clover]

Ok, we just christened our cameo last night.....we were outside in 29 degrees in the snow temp had been set at 101 and had dropped slightly to 99 in an hour.  That was with the heater still running. 
Good luck on your search!!!!!!!

I would only add, the temperature must drop 2° before the heater is activated.  If you spent an hour in the tub, that is predictable for a new user, but the time may be reduced as time progresses.

In this case, with the water at 101°, you could increase the temp to 103°, which would activate the heater and maintain, or elevate the temp,