Flair vs. Martinique - Again!

[Darzmr]

Hi, sorry if I'm beating a dead horse - I did review prior posts on this but thought a new thread rather than a bump would garner attention.  Why, oh why!? Do they bargain like car sales?  Anyway, the price for the Martinique (floor model, currently dry) is $7420, The price for the Flair is $8K.  I've negotiated with both (still need to haggle again with Hot Springs dealer), and the only difference (besides price) is the Caldera rep including a lifter ($200).  Either dealer I'm pleased to do business with, so that's not helping the decision.  I'll be wet testing this weekend, but wanted to toss the prices here on the forum for feedback.  Also, should I avoid a floor model?

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Both nice spas from a reputable manufacture for a fair price, The Flair is a real popular seller as you can see from the web reviews on hotspring.com....of course a wet test would be nice to make that final decision.  As far as floor models are concerned my only is advice is to use common sense, does the spa look like its been to every home-show and fair where 500 people have climbed in and out? (ie scratches, scuffs, etc) or is it just a tub that has been sitting in the corner of the showroom for awhile? basically just give it a once over and you should be able to tell and from that point determine if taking a gently used model is worth the discount offered

[girlinhotwater]

I was looking at either the HS Envoy or Flair and test soaked both. The Flair is a great spa no doubt, but I ended up going with the Envoy. I also shopped Caldera and if your going that route, I would really check out the Tahitian model it should be similarly priced to the Flair. My neighbor has that and I love it have soaked in it many times. I think the price quoted for the Martinique is too high considering it's the middle of the road for Caldera. I know prices are different depending on where you are located (I was quoted about $7k for the Flair floor model). Based on your two options I would say the Flair is much more spa for only $600 more so totally the way to go if you like the test soak.I also purchased a floor model that was never filled and have had no issues with it. Just make sure you get a nice shiny new pair of filters if it was filled. It's a great way to save some money if it's the spa you want and it's in good condition.

[Darzmr]

Thanks for the responses. The floor model Martinique has not been filled (still has the plastic wrap on the filter cover, etc.) and looks in excellent shape. I'll wet test "a" Caldera model, the Martinique, as I stated, is not filled.  Unsure which model they have filled for WTs, but the rep said it was similar jet-wise/motors (but nicer, and more expensive).  I have the Caldera rep down to $7200 w/tax and I'm feeling that's as low as he'll go.  I told him about the Flair for 8K and he outright said he can't touch that type of competition - the Tahitian is $9600 (pre-haggle, which I didn't do since I won't spend that much anyway). I'm really leaning towards the Caldera because it seems installation will be a breeze for them (they also do inground pools).  My tub pad is tricky because it's surrounded by a deck w/railing and difficult to even get to: up one helluva incline and behind my home.  Caldera rep didn't bat an eye and said they have all the heavy equipment they need, whereas the HS rep mentioned a crane to the tune of $500 additional, then started discussing if my old hot tub had different wiring, there'd be more cost for an electrician, etc, etc. Anyway, I'll report back after the wet test!

girlinhotwater: What made you go with the Envoy rather than the Flair? I'm curious. 

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Thanks for the responses. The floor model Martinique has not been filled (still has the plastic wrap on the filter cover, etc.) and looks in excellent shape. I'll wet test "a" Caldera model, the Martinique, as I stated, is not filled.  Unsure which model they have filled for WTs, but the rep said it was similar jet-wise/motors (but nicer, and more expensive).  I have the Caldera rep down to $7200 w/tax and I'm feeling that's as low as he'll go.  I told him about the Flair for 8K and he outright said he can't touch that type of competition - the Tahitian is $9600 (pre-haggle, which I didn't do since I won't spend that much anyway). I'm really leaning towards the Caldera because it seems installation will be a breeze for them (they also do inground pools).  My tub pad is tricky because it's surrounded by a deck w/railing and difficult to even get to: up one helluva incline and behind my home.  Caldera rep didn't bat an eye and said they have all the heavy equipment they need, whereas the HS rep mentioned a crane to the tune of $500 additional, then started discussing if my old hot tub had different wiring, there'd be more cost for an electrician, etc, etc. Anyway, I'll report back after the wet test!

girlinhotwater: What made you go with the Envoy rather than the Flair? I'm curious.

"Caldera rep didn't bat an eye and said they have all the heavy equipment they need"  That statement doesn't exactly make me feel "warm and fuzzy" ie what does that mean? they own their own crane? the cost of said crane or as he put it "heavy equipment" is included? I find it hard to believe they will bring out a spa and the manpower and/or heavy equipment to hoist the spa over a railing for no extra charge...in other words I would get exact clarification on whats included and whats not, in writing.  Also the crane (although $500 is a little high, possibly negotiable though, we have an agreement with a crane company for $250) is not always a bad idea, much safer, no risk of  scratching or damaging the tub and/or your property/deck railings, etc.

and yes wiring is different, but there is a reason it is different, the Flair will have a split breaker system which in essence (depending on the situation) can provide freeze protection for your spa and possibly avoid a "freeze up" situation so its not like its changing the wiring just to change the wiring


good luck :-)

[Darzmr]

Thanks, TwinCitiesHotSpring! Yes, I'll get a full installation report from the seller, both have stated they'll come out to look at the set up - I don't want any surprises when told installation is free. I previously had a spa, and electricity is compatible (I provided pics of my wiring to each).  Now it's just the logistics of them placing the spa.

I did wet test a Caldera (the Niagara) yesterday and I liked it a lot.  I planned to wet test the Flair this morning, but we're snowed in, so will do that Monday. 

Now Caldera is offering their new Makena model for $8240 (with lifter & tax) to counter HS's Flair price of $8K, without a lifter, which is another $400, for a walk out the door price of $8425.   Interesting that there's a huge price difference in the lifters: $200 for Caldera vs. $400 for HS - must be the quality of the lifter(?), and to date, HS isn't willing to comp one to me...

HS has a Tempo model for $6599 (pre-haggle), but I first want to wet test their spas and hopefully settle on a model I like.  And, the Martinique is still in the running, because I like it and the price (and I'd no longer be getting a floor model, but new).  I'm unsure if upgrading to the Makena or Flair is worth another $1K, and would appreciate advice in this area (I don't want to have regrets).

Also, can I get some input on Caldera's FROG system? I read positive reviews of it and also looked up bromine vs. chlorine (familiar with that from my Beachcomber).  I used my old spa daily and was always adjusting the chemical levels - no fun.

Thanks again to you all for the help.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Thanks, TwinCitiesHotSpring! Yes, I'll get a full installation report from the seller, both have stated they'll come out to look at the set up - I don't want any surprises when told installation is free. I previously had a spa, and electricity is compatible (I provided pics of my wiring to each).  Now it's just the logistics of them placing the spa.

I did wet test a Caldera (the Niagara) yesterday and I liked it a lot.  I planned to wet test the Flair this morning, but we're snowed in, so will do that Monday. 

Now Caldera is offering their new Makena model for $8240 (with lifter & tax) to counter HS's Flair price of $8K, without a lifter, which is another $400, for a walk out the door price of $8425.   Interesting that there's a huge price difference in the lifters: $200 for Caldera vs. $400 for HS - must be the quality of the lifter(?), and to date, HS isn't willing to comp one to me...

HS has a Tempo model for $6599 (pre-haggle), but I first want to wet test their spas and hopefully settle on a model I like.  And, the Martinique is still in the running, because I like it and the price (and I'd no longer be getting a floor model, but new).  I'm unsure if upgrading to the Makena or Flair is worth another $1K, and would appreciate advice in this area (I don't want to have regrets).

Also, can I get some input on Caldera's FROG system? I read positive reviews of it and also looked up bromine vs. chlorine (familiar with that from my Beachcomber).  I used my old spa daily and was always adjusting the chemical levels - no fun.

Thanks again to you all for the help.

just my opinion but you do get a couple nice extras for that 1k (assuming we're talking about going from the Martinique to the Flair) you add 2 years of component warranty, you also get a little more spacious tub (both footprint wise and depth wise as well) a few more jets, much cooler lighting, 65sq ft. filter vs a 50sq ft....of course some of that is subjective but just some things to mull over.  I'm personally not a fan of using the proprietary frog or bromine in general but that of course is subjective as well...you can always "give it a shot" and if its not to your liking its easy to switch to a different system (ie chlorine, silver ion/mps, etc.)

also just an fyi even though your going to the Hot Spot line (Tempo) vs. the Limelight collection (Flair) that Tempo is a very fair price esp. if they allow you to haggle a bit

[Darzmr]

Thanks again, TwinCitiesHotSpring. I wet tested the Relay, Envoy, & Flair today.  Loved the Relay (who knew?), but really want feet jets (that'd be the Tempo, which wasn't filled - will wet test it tomorrow).  I was disappointed that I didn't like the Flair, the lounger didn't fit... I kept being pushed toward the center of the tub, lol.  The Envoy I tried just cuz it was filled.  Haggled for the Tempo and got it down to $6700, out the door with (drum roll) a lifter! Finally! But! I've narrowed it down to either the Tempo or Martinique - apparently HS doesn't have a comparable spa to the Martinique (other than the $8K Flair).  The Tempo's in the Hot Spot (and lowest tier) of HS (and more comparable to the Caldera's low tier Marino), whereas the Martinique is Caldera's mid tier, Paradise.  Equates to better warranty, full time pump running (important to me for energy costs) and more HP.  So you can see where I'm leaning... but I will give the Tempo a test dip, cuz fit is everything. 

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Exactly why a wet test can be so important!!   

[Darzmr]

Amazing the difference, Jacuzzi Jim   So anyhoo... Caldera rep was supposed to send someone out to do a "site check" today, 2 hour window, and guess what? No show. No call, either, lol. So this gives me great insight with regard to expectations if I buy from them and need service.  I'm aghast, honestly.  That's not a way to garner my $ when PRE-customer service sucks.  I'm due for another wet test at the HS dealer tomorrow - I guess it's a good thing I was (note past tense) torn between the two manufacturers.

[Hot Spring Ace]

Amazing the difference, Jacuzzi Jim   So anyhoo... Caldera rep was supposed to send someone out to do a "site check" today, 2 hour window, and guess what? No show. No call, either, lol. So this gives me great insight with regard to expectations if I buy from them and need service.  I'm aghast, honestly.  That's not a way to garner my $ when PRE-customer service sucks.  I'm due for another wet test at the HS dealer tomorrow - I guess it's a good thing I was (note past tense) torn between the two manufacturers.

The Tempo is an excellent spa for the money you're talking but call the Martinique dealer and make sure he knows the guy did not show up and see what reason you're given. You could check the Sovereign out as well when you go back to the Hot Spring dealer.

[Darzmr]

Hot Spring Ace - I know, mistakes happen, but it was a bad day schedule-wise for me.  Everything worked out though: I got back from wet testing the Tempo (didn't like the lounger) & the Caldera tech had come & gone (left his card).  I called the store & apparently the tech had me down for diff time slot - he came back by and all's well with placing a spa.

Tomorrow I'm wet testing the Envoy (I stated in earlier post that I'd already tested one, so I obv have my models super-confused).  If I like it, rep'll see what he can do on a 2012 model... I'm not confident he can price it in my comfort zone, but I give him kudos for effort.

[Darzmr]

New conundrum and advice asap requested.  I've been upsold (go figure), and have narrowed it down to a HS 2012 floor model Envoy for $9K versus a 2013 still wrapped Caldera Geneva for $9500. I like both spas, but don't know which is the better deal, especially with a nearly 2-yo model in the mix.  Caldera rep absolutely refuses to go any lower (I've tried, hard).

[Darzmr]

C'mon, somebody.. anybody   I need advice, please (apparently all the forum action is going on over at the Vortex thread). 

[hottubdan]

All things being equal…you like both tubs.  They come with similar extras?  Take the Envoy!  You are getting a Hot spring for a lower price than a Caldera.  Rare opportunity.  Geneva great tub also.  But, you are losing Moto Massage.  You are missing superior filtration.  Go for it.