PH balance problems, need advice please.

[BuckeyeFan]

Hello fellow hot tubbers.
  My question.  The PH balance or PH Lock products that are out there, should they be used either after filling your spa for the first time and getting your PH & TSA in ballance to lock it in, and/or after you do a maintenance drain and refill. Or can you use these products after about a month of battling water ballance and finally getting them in sync and then locking them in with said products? 
  I ask because from what I have read on LeisureTime's website  you should add Them after filling your spa.
  Your comments are greatly appreciated.   

[Sam]

I don't have a ton of experience with these products, but from what I understand you can add them at any time.  I do recall the instructions saying to do it on fresh fill, but I don't believe it matters.  I know that I have had many customers add them later with no ill effect.   

Go Buckeyes!!!  We should have a hell of a team this year.  Can't wait for football season!

[BuckeyeFan]

Hi Sam,
  Thanks for your reply.  I still learning this whole chemical balance thing. I've only had my tub for a month now. My PH & TSA have been bouncing back and forth for weeks. Maybe if I would of put in some kind of PH lock thing in the first week things wouldn't of been such a battle.
  I went a few days ago and bought Leisuretime ph balance.  Got my water balanced later that day and dumped the whole bottle in like it said on the instructions.  I was out of town for a few days and when I came home the water was milky.  I testest the water and everything was very high. So I did some tweeking, took the filters out gave them a good cleaning. ( they had a yellow tint to them. ) Put it some spa down then the next day I put in Bright&Clear then a hour later ecerything was clear and my water balanced.  Ive been testing my water with Taylor's test kit that I just bought and for the past 3 days everything is normal, except my bromine.  It keeps bouncing form 0 to 10.  So I need to figure out if I really need to use the non chlor schock everytime I use the tub, or just a few times a week??. I'm useing the frog floating system with the yellow and blue cartridges.  My spa has a ozonator.

Yes, I can't wait for football season to start up. I wanna be able to sit in my tub and watch the games. OH-IO !!

[Sam]

With the frog system, you should only need to shock with mps every 1-2 weeks as long as the water quality is good.  If it starts to get funky, shock it again.  After awhile, you will figure out what setting on the yellow cartridge dial works best for your amount of usage.  Remember, you only need 1 ppm of bromine with the frog system.  Everyone's bather load is different so it's hard to tell people exactly what they need.  Most people get into a routine and get a regimen figured out within a few months.  It definitely gets easier.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

use standard pH reducer...more cost effective and if you know the procedure for balancing pH/Alk. from the start it remains relatively stable with only small additions required throughout the life of your water...post your tap water numbers and gallons in the spa and I can provide that info. for anyone who needs assistance

[Spoiledrotten]

Since this subject is PH and ALK, I've taken my water samples to the dealerships and have been very impressed with the electronic numbers I get from them. What kind of system do you guys use? Is that super expensive and if not, would be be a good investment for a homeowner? I've seen the small digital readers, but not sure about those things. What would you say about those?

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Since this subject is PH and ALK, I've taken my water samples to the dealerships and have been very impressed with the electronic numbers I get from them. What kind of system do you guys use? Is that super expensive and if not, would be be a good investment for a homeowner? I've seen the small digital readers, but not sure about those things. What would you say about those?

digital is nice, but be prepared to spend some big bucks on one that is both accurate and won't break within a year...I'm a little "old school" and prefer the drop test type of kit, best one on the market imo is: http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Complete-FAS-DPD-Water-K-2006/dp/B0002IXIIG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374879736&sr=8-1&keywords=taylor+k2006  obviously a little more of a learning curve than digital but its accurate and replacement reagents are very cheap so the kit can literally last a lifetime and there is nothing you can break on it like the digitals...just my .02

[BuckeyeFan]

Well, my ph is holding steady at 7.2. My TSA keeps bouncing from 180 to 120. But it likes to stay at 180 untill I put something in to lower it.
  But what bothers me is the dang bromine.  Ug ! It was perfect on Thursday at 5. My husband and I got in it fo about a hour then the next morning I tested it and it was zero. I shocked it with the nonchlor stuff and when I got home from work it tested at 10. I then took the frog out for about 2 hours. Then husband and got in it Friday night for 2 hours.  Saturday morning it tested at zero. (Sigh) so I stocked it again with nonchlor , left the cover off , ran the jets for 30 min .....again. Now I just tested it and its back up to 10.  So I guess I'm gonna add people to it tonight and see what happens.  If I need to nonshock it I won't use the whole 2 oz. Maybe just try 1 oz. And see how that goes.

[Sam]

Bromine levels will fluctuate with use.  Don't let it stress you out.  It doesn't take much to get it from 0 ppm to the 1ppm required for the frog system.  What do you have the yellow dial set to?  I would just maybe increase it a bit rather than shock so often.  With the mineral cartridge and an ozonator, you're pretty safe and barely need any bromine at all.  It may drop to zero after you use it, but it should come back up to 1 pretty easily unless you have a really large bather load.

[Spoiledrotten]

Since this subject is PH and ALK, I've taken my water samples to the dealerships and have been very impressed with the electronic numbers I get from them. What kind of system do you guys use? Is that super expensive and if not, would be be a good investment for a homeowner? I've seen the small digital readers, but not sure about those things. What would you say about those?

digital is nice, but be prepared to spend some big bucks on one that is both accurate and won't break within a year...I'm a little "old school" and prefer the drop test type of kit, best one on the market imo is: http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Complete-FAS-DPD-Water-K-2006/dp/B0002IXIIG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374879736&sr=8-1&keywords=taylor+k2006  obviously a little more of a learning curve than digital but its accurate and replacement reagents are very cheap so the kit can literally last a lifetime and there is nothing you can break on it like the digitals...just my .02

I've got the Taylor kit, but it's still a guessing game when you try to match color for color. I was reading reviews for the Aquachek. There are a good amount of people that like it and some that report their numbers to be off a couple of numbers. I say, just how far are you when you guess at a color? Probably more than the actual digital reading, so I went on and ordered one. It can't be any less accurate than the colored strips or even the colored water where you have to count out drops and then calculate how much you may have actually missed the reading anyway. I'll report back later.

[BuckeyeFan]

Bromine levels will fluctuate with use.  Don't let it stress you out.  It doesn't take much to get it from 0 ppm to the 1ppm required for the frog system.  What do you have the yellow dial set to?  I would just maybe increase it a bit rather than shock so often.  With the mineral cartridge and an ozonator, you're pretty safe and barely need any bromine at all.  It may drop to zero after you use it, but it should come back up to 1 pretty easily unless you have a really large bather load.

Thanks Sam, Its starting to make since to me. After you posted that, I read a paragraph in my owners maual that does say pretty much the same thing you just stated. I guess it just worries me to see the test read zero. 

My Ph seems to still be holding at 7.2. The TSA goes from 120 to 180 every other time I test it. My Hardness level is right on 250 wich is at the low end of OK range on the Aqua Check.

So the other problem Im having is scaleing. I mean I guess thats what it is. That white film at the water line all around the tub ?  I`ve been putting in the Scale Preventor stuff that came in the start up kit (SwimWay brand) once a week but it still forms. This makes me wonder if damage will occure to the spa parts.  I also use those scum balls thingys.  I`m beginning to wonder if the SwimWay scale preventor stuff works at all. 

TwinCitiesHotSpring you wanted me to post my tap water test levels.

Hardness- 100
Bromine- 0
TSA -120
PH  ` 8.4  WOW!
Spa is 350 gallons with a Ozone.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Bromine levels will fluctuate with use.  Don't let it stress you out.  It doesn't take much to get it from 0 ppm to the 1ppm required for the frog system.  What do you have the yellow dial set to?  I would just maybe increase it a bit rather than shock so often.  With the mineral cartridge and an ozonator, you're pretty safe and barely need any bromine at all.  It may drop to zero after you use it, but it should come back up to 1 pretty easily unless you have a really large bather load.

Thanks Sam, Its starting to make since to me. After you posted that, I read a paragraph in my owners maual that does say pretty much the same thing you just stated. I guess it just worries me to see the test read zero. 

My Ph seems to still be holding at 7.2. The TSA goes from 120 to 180 every other time I test it. My Hardness level is right on 250 wich is at the low end of OK range on the Aqua Check.

So the other problem Im having is scaleing. I mean I guess thats what it is. That white film at the water line all around the tub ?  I`ve been putting in the Scale Preventor stuff that came in the start up kit (SwimWay brand) once a week but it still forms. This makes me wonder if damage will occure to the spa parts.  I also use those scum balls thingys.  I`m beginning to wonder if the SwimWay scale preventor stuff works at all. 

TwinCitiesHotSpring you wanted me to post my tap water test levels.

Hardness- 100
Bromine- 0
TSA -120
PH  ` 8.4  WOW!
Spa is 350 gallons with a Ozone.

next time skip the calcium hardness increaser, a calcium hardness level of 100-150ppm is perfect (ignore the test strip regarding CH levels, you have an acrylic spa and don't have the worries of a concrete pool, water will "feel" better as well with lower calcium), other than that your tap water levels are pretty good, the only thing you'll really need at startup based on the gallons in your spa is approx. 3-3.5 oz of pH decreaser which should bring that TA down to ~80ish ppm and lower that pH as well.  Based on your numbers I assume this is "city" water and a metal protector or metal gon product is probably not even needed (some people still opt for it as some city water sources still have traces of metal)