Those with home show questions...Heres your sign!!

[stl-rex]

You think it's rough buying a spa, J McD mentioned Diamonds.  Now there is a racket.  Sleeze-O-Rama.  If you don't know you're stuff..............you will get hung out to dry.  I've seen it happen to too many friends that don't listen to me.

[Spatech_tuo]

You think it's rough buying a spa, J McD mentioned Diamonds.  Now there is a racket.  Sleeze-O-Rama.  If you don't know you're stuff..............you will get hung out to dry.  I've seen it happen to too many friends that don't listen to me.

That's why I got my wife a genuine Diamonique!  

[stl-rex]

Wow! I share some of the questions and conversations that I found funny, odd or misplaced and people here take it personal?

None of this is an attack on anyone....This was my weekend!

If some of you think this post was all about you, your spa, your position in the grand scheme of things and let it hurt your feelings you have some issues that you should probably deal with.

I know... try a rant!! How about the “stuarts picking on arctic rant” or the “stuarts grouchy and mean rant” or better yet “it’s all about me rant”?

I don't need a vacation, I need a place for a reality check and a place that I can vent somewhere and this forum was always that.

I'm not angry, I'm not depressed and I don't have a chip on my shoulder. On the contrary I rather enjoyed writing the last two posts and have had friends say they rather enjoyed reading them.

I hope you can understand that I'm not going to put an Arctic-bashing disclaimer on every post.... Funny, I always thought that if you got defensive over something it was because of a guilty conscience!

I met several great people this weekend! In fact, I think that I need someone else to work the show so that I can spend my time hobnobbing with customers, friends and acquaintances that seem to come by in droves.

I really enjoyed all of the young couples out spending time together because one of them just got back from Iraq.

I would not be in business without consumers and things would be boring if not for the colorfulness of human nature but in the words of Ron White "You just can't fix stupid!"

Disclaimer....I'm not calling anyone on this forum stupid,  if comments on this post resemble any similarities to anyone here or anyone you know it is simply coincidental,  no Arctic spas where damaged in typing this post, Ron Whites name was used without his permission

This has been brought to you by “Tired old spa warrior rants inc.”

I find it odd you would go on a forum frequented by consumers and basically call us all a bunch of idiots as a way of venting.  By the very admission you were venting tells me that is what you believe, that you "just had to get it off your chest".  After the fact niceties and "I didn't really mean that" don't carry a whole lot of weight.  Not that what I think matters to you, but it might to others who are trying to figure out what the hell crawled up yours.
Of course your dealer friends find it amusing and well said as they probably feel the same way about their customers (as is evidenced by their supportive comments.)
So do you pay "sticker" for your new (or used) cars?  Or do you haggle out the best deal?

[Mendocino101]

I do not think this is about haggling your best deal....

[Mendocino101]

I find it odd you would go on a forum frequented by consumers and basically call us all a bunch of idiots as a way of venting.  By the very admission you were venting tells me that is what you believe, that you "just had to get it off your chest".  After the fact niceties and "I didn't really mean that" don't carry a whole lot of weight.  Not that what I think matters to you, but it might to others who are trying to figure out what the hell crawled up yours.
Of course your dealer friends find it amusing and well said as they probably feel the same way about their customers (as is evidenced by their supportive comments.)
So do you pay "sticker" for your new (or used) cars?  Or do you haggle out the best deal?

Perhaps I missed something.....but I never got the impression anyone was referring to anyone as idoits...what I think gets lost here by many is that most consumers on this forum are not like the average person who walks in your door or who you meet at a home show....etc....most people here want to make an informed decision or simply enjoy owning their spa and like the common shared experience of ownership that most have here on this board.....I took the post as someone venting about a long weekend.....I can say this......I wish we had more consumers that walked in our door that did the research that those here do........Do not get me wrong we have met some truly wonderful people....who are now customers as well as freinds...but most who come in have very little idea about what makes a spa worthy of the investment and depending and who and what they want to beleive....a quick example....we lost a sale to another dealer....lower price....a few months later the customers are back at our place looking for help.... it was spa/ gazebo package they bought...when I asked what the trouble was it was that they could not get the cover off their spa.....turns out the other "deal" was cheaper because the gazebo was to small for the spa....it fit inside but left to room for clearance for a lift and it made using the spa very diffcult.....it really opened my eyes as just how low some will go to make a supposed deal....I am speaking of the other dealer....anyway......I appreciate those contribute here to this board both from the dealers and consumers and again I say Thank you to you all.......

[stuart]

As an owner who's in the spa nearly every day, I think I'm just as qualified or more so to talk about that brand against which he competes.  

Now that's what  I'm talking about!!! Because you own a spa you want to seen as an expert on your brand! I own a BMW Cycle but I know far less about it then the mechanic at the Honda dealership that works on all brands. Staying at a holiday inn express doesn’t really give you knowledge!

Do you think Arctic invented Thermopane insulation?
Do you think they engineered that equipment pack or invented the cedar wood cabinet? Fact is that most of the things they have one that spa are ideas taken from other brands.

I've seen hundreds of spas with similar features...some last some don't but I've seen them fail and survive at most levels. You've seen your spa…How many wooden rails have you fixed on spas? How many cabinet doors of the same design have you repaired? Do you have any idea how many motors failed on the first brands of TP spas because they never cooled and stayed in constant overheat condition? Do you think they did that in the first 3 years? I promise you that your motors stand a better chance of failure by the 5-year mark than many others but you wouldn't know that because you haven't gotten to that point.

Do you have any idea how heavy all of those 6 inch covers will get when they begin to water log?

He gets pissed because people like me and others speak favorably of their brand even though we "know nothing not having been in the business for years".  Well people like me are an asset. We've just wet tested the latest and greatest competing models, formed an opinion, and share it.

Are you that blinded to see that I have no problem with your relationship with your spa or brand? I have a problem with how they have been marketed for the last few years. Your spa is not the problem, the quality is not the problem, the attitude of many dealers and the way the factory allows and perhaps encourages sales is. Do you have an identity problem that makes you think your employed by Arctic in some way?

You know plenty, you know a lot about your spa and your have a mild knowledge of the few tubs you wet tested but that's it. I test drove several cars before I bought my SUV but that doesn’t make me Ralph Nader.

Your right your formed an opinion...that's all it is, your opinion! You have yet to dissect the industry enough for it to be solid fact. You’re on a journey to that knowledge and this site is part of that but your still a long way from many who have been trekking that road  most of their lives.
.

We are an alternative to the dealers whose agenda, however how noble, have an eye on the bottom line.  Concede anything to a competitor and you may have lost a sale. It's so obvious at times. .

My agenda is the bottom line? What is it that you think I get paid for here? I’ve spent countless hours here helping people on brands that I don’t give a crap about because they felt they had no where else to turn. I’ve called factories, dealerships and even component manufactures to help people on this forum and it didn’t get me a thing! When’s the last time you called a competitor up to help one of their customers for no personal gain? I do it all the time here.
.

I also think that if his opinions of his customers are accurate, he needs to find a new profession.  No one should hold that much negative contempt for the people who keep their doors open. .

I started my store from the back of a truck with a spa and gazebo that I maxxed out two cards to buy. I used grocery money to buy a banner and did all sales, deliveries and service myself. In my first year I did 1.3 million in sales, now six years later I own one of the largest stores in the state. I’ve never had the luxury of being in the red or letting someone else take care of it and it didn’t happen without an extremely good referral base.

Where is it that you get that I have contempt for my customers? By me questioning the rudeness of some people at a show? Let me ask you something…Because I make a joking comment about the spa brand you bought, you feel that you can justify attacking me and a brand that you know little to nothing about? Are you OK with the potential that your attitude could take food off of my table? I have no choice but to take this dead serious, it’s my livelihood….It’s your hobby.

Next week for grins lets get into a discussion about what you do for a living, your obviously bored with it if you spend so much time trying to dominate mine…

[Cola]

I have to agree with you Stuart.  I looked around and bought my spa based on personal preference, quality and a judgment call as to the quality of service that I would receive from my dealer.  I didn't get to see an Arctic tub, no dealers in my area, but I did read up on them.  I looked into HS, Marquis, Caldera, Maax, Coleman, Jacuzzi, Cal, Bullfrog, Costco brand, HD brand, Catalina, Coast and Vita.  I made a decision that I knew I would have to live with for a long time, well actually my wife got the final decision.  The guy I bought from didn't cut up the other brands, he just told me what he liked about the brand he rep'd.  Sure he stretched it a bit, but all of the other guys did a lot more.  If we all owned the same brand of tub, then we could just sit around and tell each other how much we love each other.  Well we don't.  We discuss issues from choosing a tub to site prep to whether we need a roof over our tub or not.  I personally don't care which tub everybody else owns.  I don't need to know that you bought the same tub as I did to make me feel any more right about my decision.  My tub is FF and I don't care what yours is, but the fact that we discuss it is great.  The comments from the show that you wrote about are funny Stuart.  I can see that you can get a bit fed up with the dummies at the shows, and well, that's up to you to handle the situation how you feel.  If the smart a$$ doesn't like your attitude, that's his problem.  I'm sure that a lot of people like to play the devils advocate at the shows.  I guess that is their way of feeling superior.
What do I have to offer to this forum as a whole?
My opinion and observations on my tub of choice
My observations on the chems that I have used
My experience in the electrical field
Steve

[stuart]

Thanks Steve! The electrical field input is really a plus!

[Tman122]

Stuart...you are allowed to trash talk any brand you want. If Rex gets hurt tough s**t I also could care less what brand anyone owns for that matter and if they feel they need to constantly justify there purchase and we are not allowed to say one is a piece of junk  and another is terribly built something is wrong. I just think it's funny how I get blasted for trash talking Arctic even though I never do and yet there are a few Arctic guys who instead of coming around and saying "they think Arctic is fine" they continualy jump in and say they are tired of us trash talking Arctic.

Well guess what. I could give a rip what you think. I can trash talk any brand I want!!!

Man this gets sickening, bunch of baby.

[Chris_H]

I really wanted to respond to this thread, but did not know what I could really add that would be useful.

I like when we have people go on tangents.  It gives me something to do than look at an excel spreadsheet all morning, afternoon, and evening.  Personally, I took Stuart’s comments with a grain of salt.  

I would love to see a Chas rant or at least another Chas vs. Arjuna debate because that keeps me occupied for a good 2 days.

I did have one question:  Why aren’t the Hotspring people up in arms about Stuart’s comments about Hotspring sales personnel saying their spas require no chemicals.

NOTE: if Chas has ranted on something post the link because that has to be like reading The Da Vinci Code.

[J._McD]

You think it's rough buying a spa, J McD mentioned Diamonds.  Now there is a racket.  Sleeze-O-Rama.  If you don't know you're stuff..............you will get hung out to dry.  I've seen it happen to too many friends that don't listen to me.

We have been saying the same thing with great consternation and critisism.

The problem here is that we are all individuals and we are human.  It is just that we may meet 2000 to 3000 of them at a show and they too are individuals of every description.  It doesn't take long to have some inferior idiot come in to challenge your thinking.  Stuart is only expressing how those idiots present themselves with such inteligent thoughts.  It just seems that there are a few sensitive issues that he has touched upon and those who do not know what he is talking about are taking personal offense.

[Bonibelle]

If you are wondering where the Terminator is on all of this...I can only guess that he is polishing one of his pieces and sitting back grinnin'.  That is one man who just loves what he does, every aspect of it. As long as I have been reading this forum, I have never seen him shoot seriously negative remarks about any other brand and while he may refer to a few folks as goobers, he does it all in jest...My hat's off to you Term...You'll live
a long and happy life and you deserve it!

[galen]

As I had stated earlier in another post, IMO trash talk from a sells person is not what I want to hear when I was shopping for a tub. Its a free world, and some people are more opinionated. Thats ok, but to me, that is a sign of a lack of professionalism. Its no big deal, its a turn-off to me. It makes me think that the salesperson doesn't know the qualities of their product so they have to knock the competitions. I know its a sells tactic. And that it works, it just doesn't work for me.

[East_TX_Spa]

Man, I LOVE doing shows.  This weekend, I went over to Shreveport just to help out because I enjoy visiting with people.

I can relate to the aggravation in dealing with some of the goobers that stop by the booth, but I just try to have fun with it as much as possible.  You just never know when the irritating, semi-retarded yokel you're talking to is liable to suddenly change demeanor and whip out the credit card.  I've seen it many times.  

Customers like to play ignorant sometimes just to see how you're going to react.  They will lie like dogs, always trying to find your weakspot.  Even sweet little ol' me sometimes loses my patience and I shoo them away.  But, when you can roll with the flow and continue to be patient, sometimes they will reward you with a purchase, which is what you're there for in the first place.

Spa selling ain't saving the world and it ain't curing cancer and it ain't really very important in the grand scheme of things.  But, it is a ton of fun and very rewarding when you can look back at the end of the day and say "I sell a damn fine product that makes a lot of people happy.  I can sure live with that."

Hang in there, you ol' spa selling warrior!

Terminator

[drewstar]

Stuart,

It sounds like you have had a rough week and have the blues.  Who's the guy on the Blue Collar Comedy Tour whose lead statement is "You can't fix stupid"?  

You need to remind yourself of the serenity prayer:  "Please God help me to have the courage to fix the things I can, the serenity to accept the things I can't, and the courage to know the difference."

that would be Ron "tater salad" White.  I man I presonally can relate with.  

"Here's your sign"  Is  of course,  Jeff Foxworthy.

However, If I here "git r done" anymore I will drown someone.  (I belive it's Larry the cable guy who's does that bit)


anyhow, you migth be a redneck disgrunted spa dealer if....