Choosing Hot tub

[Stephenh]

First thing, thanks to the moderator for deleting the russian spam.

So, we go a quote of 10800(before taxes) for a Hot Springs Aria.  It seemed a little small, so we also got a quote for 10600 for the Envoy, which seemed like it should be a little more expensive.

Aria- MSRP 15602(!), Unit price 11800, discounted 1000 for total of 10800.  Includes Cover(listed as '01?), Cradle Kit premium, Polymer Step, Silk balance water system, Nature 2, Shock(2 lbs), Test strips, Site check(says he will do this with fully refundable deposit), Subpanel, delivery(3 men), Freshwater Ozone


Envoy- MSRP 15602(!), Unit price 11199, discounted 600 for total of 10600.  Includes Cover(listed as '05?), Cradle Kit premium, Everwood Step, Silk balance water system, Nature 2, Shock(2 lbs), Test strips, Site check(says he will do this with fully refundable deposit), Subpanel, delivery(3 men), Freshwater Ozone



It seems like the Envoy should be slightly more-its a bit bigger, a few more jets, better steps, with the only downside I can see(other than more electricity for more water) is one smaller motor(2.0 vs 2.5, other motor is the same).  Went to another dealer for HS(perhaps out service area), and got a quote for 11200 for the Envoy, with no lifter cover.

I'm a little concerned about the shell(not trying to be flamed here), but has anyone experienced crazing with the ABS/acrylic? 

[ejf The Spa Guy]

stephen,
Don't let the salesman tell you one shell is better than the others, and likewise....Most of your acrylic shells on the market are made by Aristech, and Lucite,,, The differances is how the back of the acrylic is done, fiberglass, sprayed on or rolled on some back with an abs product,,,, warranties on the acrylics are about the same,,, wether the shell and the bonding agent the rigid bonding, the metal strapping, will all be about the same the thickness of the shell does not mean better... but crazing can happen on the acrylic shells i have seen it a few times,, but it usually will happen on the shell outside the tub , not on the inside... but the crazing will not cause any issues with the shell...... there are some differences like the Ultralife from D1, the Endurol from Hot Springs,,,, I know you said earlier the Ultralife looked cheap,,, it actually has become my best seller, easier to clean, lighting shows better in the white tub,( movie screens are white( why)? more vivid colors.... but it has different matial in it. my own spa has it,, its softer than acrylic , actuaaly best way to describe is like sitting on leather.....

[Spatech_tuo]

I'm a little concerned about the shell(not trying to be flamed here), but has anyone experienced crazing with the ABS/acrylic? 

I'm not sure if someone has told you stories as part of a sales presentation but I wouldn't worry about the shells personally. As far as the two mls you're looking t, the prices are close so just go with your gut along with the wet/dry tests which tell you how the seats and jets feel and sit in them and picture which seats will be best as it sits in your yard and what the lounges will face if you get one...

[Stephenh]

I'm not actually that worried-I suspect the shell is actually the least of issues. The biggest issue between brands seems to be strength and placement of jets.  My wife really felt that the HS was stronger that the Sundance, which did not make sense(more jets in the Sundance?) to me.  Anyway, we are trying to choose between the Aria and Envoy. Both have stated 5 person capacity, but it seems to me that the Aria is really two person(lounge plus angled seat) and the Envoy is 3 person(lounge, two good chairs).  The Aria seems to take up a lot of space with the cool down seat, but I'm not buying a hot tub to cool down.  How much difference does the Aria 2.5 hp motor make over the Envoy?  I'm just seeing the Envoy as a better buy overall.  I found a dealer with the Aria filled, but not the Envoy(although is on the floor).  They also have a Sovereign filled, which should have a similar lounge to the Envoy(no calf jets), so we will see.  By the way, do the dealers have territories which prevent another dealer from selling there?  Fortunately our closer dealer seems to have lower prices, but I'm just wondering.

[Spatech_tuo]

I'm not actually that worried-I suspect the shell is actually the least of issues. The biggest issue between brands seems to be strength and placement of jets.  My wife really felt that the HS was stronger that the Sundance, which did not make sense(more jets in the Sundance?) to me.  Anyway, we are trying to choose between the Aria and Envoy. Both have stated 5 person capacity, but it seems to me that the Aria is really two person(lounge plus angled seat) and the Envoy is 3 person(lounge, two good chairs).  The Aria seems to take up a lot of space with the cool down seat, but I'm not buying a hot tub to cool down.  How much difference does the Aria 2.5 hp motor make over the Envoy?  I'm just seeing the Envoy as a better buy overall.  I found a dealer with the Aria filled, but not the Envoy(although is on the floor).  They also have a Sovereign filled, which should have a similar lounge to the Envoy(no calf jets), so we will see.  By the way, do the dealers have territories which prevent another dealer from selling there?  Fortunately our closer dealer seems to have lower prices, but I'm just wondering.

1) As many of us have noted before, every spa brand overstates how many people fit in it unless you plan to sit against each other and play footsies. You always have to subtract 1 or 2 from what is listed.

2) A "cooldown seat" in reality is space needed to place pumps in the equipment compartment. It is a necessity for space first, a cooldown seat second. If the lounge is placed in front of the spa parallel to that front then the pumps can go under the lounge and there will be no cooldown seat elsewhere in the spa. What you are seeing is lounges facing different directions which is why one has a cooldown seat and the other doesn’t? Does one make more sense to you relative to the view you would get in your yard in the lounge?

3) The hp difference may not show in the feel of the jets because usually HP is tied to the total flow needed which is driven by type and number of jets so they typically balance it from model to model. You might feel a difference in a wet test but I'd expect the wet test will probably show more differences in the feel of the seats (height, width, angle, jet placement, etc.) than the feel of the individual jets themselves assuming you're talking about spas within the same family that have the same type jets which is your case.

4) Not totally sure on the territory question but I think they can sell anywhere as long as they service it in the future (which stops them from selling 300 miles away and then leaving service for someone closer). You want a dealer fairly close, preferably within 30 miles though further can be fine and even much further is fine if the dealer takes care of its customer (in rural areas long distances are not atypical obviously).

[d00nut]

By the way, do the dealers have territories which prevent another dealer from selling there?  Fortunately our closer dealer seems to have lower prices, but I'm just wondering.

Go with the dealer that can take care of you and you feel comfortable with.  Sometimes we have these big time dealers that move a lot of inventory try and sell in our neck of the woods, but people that buy from them to save a $100 or even $200 end up paying for it when they need service.   For instance, if you buy the tub from the guys further away and need warranty work in the middle of winter.  The dealer that remains close to you cannot perform any warranty work unless the other guy goes out of business.

Now, they can service it, but they will obviously charge you for that.

On the Envoy and Aria question, have you sat in both? 

I sell far more Aria's than Envoy's here because we have plenty of Baby Boomers that are now having a rough time getting around.  That being said, the Envoy is very, very difficult for most people with severe hip/leg/back problems to get in and out of.  The Aria, on the other hand, is a cake walk with a handrail.  Something to think about.

[Stephenh]

Sat in the Aria and the Envoy.  Preferred the Aria due to the stronger and better placed jets.  However, still a little small.  My personal preference of the all the tubs is the SD Optima-my comments were really to the Cameo which I did not like as well.  Wife prefers Aria.  Also considering Limelight Flair.  Personally, I've become convinced that the lounge feature is a waste of space and usually doesn't fit in one way or another.  The Aria lounge wasn't bad, but still I don't think worth it.

[d00nut]

Go with a Vanguard then!  That is actually what I own, and it rocks!

[Stephenh]

I'm not  seeing how the aria is worth 3k over the flair-both are fairly small, but the flair actually seems like it could accommodate people more easily. Also, not thrilled with the moto massage.