I hate spa shopping!

[dasher]

My wife and I have been planning to buy a hot tub for ourselves for Christmas, and I have to say the whole process is turning me off the idea. What is it with an industry that you go in a store, no prices! One place (hotspring) huge sign Truckload sale, they had 1 new spa in the showroom and showed me the MSRP and quoted me that as a price; nice sale! Year end sales, buy now or you will loose this great deal. But is it a deal, no one knows because what are the real prices!!!! It's better buying a used car!

I am down to looking at 2 right now and I will post the deals so you can tell me what you think....
Jacuzzi J-355 Cover, Lifter, Steps, Starter Chem and delivery, no ozone $8799.00
Sundance Cameo, Cover, lifter, steps, starter Chem, delivery, ozone system $9995.00

I know that Jacuzzi is the mid line and the Sundance is top line but I can't see paying jacuzzi more to have the waterfall a bit higher and different lights.

It's just sad that the whole process has me fustrated and my wife turned off by the whole idea of getting a spa.

Feel free to give me any imput and ideas, If I don't decide by next weekend I am gonna throw in the towel and wait for the spring home show to revisit the idea.

Thanks,
Dasher, Atlanta, GA

[Vinny]

Both those prices seem expensive but I haven't shopped for spas in a long time. Also, location plays a role in the price as well. Unfortunately unlike buying a car there are not price websites to figure if it's too much. The other thing I am thinking is that with the economy being what it is they may be looking to get as much money from the sale as possible as they may may not be selling too many in your area.

Jacuzzi isn't inferior to Sundance, it's just a different manufacturer.

There shouldn't be a rush to buy and you need to look around. It's true that prices may go up do to different factors but they don't go up 1,000's per year.

My advice is to shop around (I don't know how much you've done) and take your time. If you do shop around and find these are true prices, the price next year will be almost the same as you are finding now.

Good luck in your search.

[just ducky]

Dasher,

I was frustrated as well when we were shopping this time last year at the dealer's in my area.  But I learned a couple of things in the process...most importantly, the current economy can work in a consumer's favor.  I don't know how the economy is in Atlanta where you are, but up here in the midwest it's in the tank.  No correction, it fell out of the tank about a year ago, and is now buried BENEATH the tank!    My first visit in the various tub stores was just like yours from the sounds of it...here's our price...take it or leave it.  So I was quite frustrated too at my lack of being able to figure out if a deal was actually a deal or not.  Then on a second visit to one of the dealers, I asked if they would be at an upcoming home show.  He said no, that it wasn't worth their time.  So I said well I plan to attend the show and compare styles and prices, which at the time I honestly was.  But that got his attention...he clearly didn't want me to go to the show looking for a deal, and likely finding one.  After a bit more discussion, I flat out said what some of the other dealers had honestly told me...that their "home show" price would be X% cheaper than in their store, and they would give it to me ahead of the show (which I figured was just another sales gimmick).  So I asked this dealer to give me the same discount.  He declined, and we left his store.  A day later he called me, and said he'd give me that same percentage off.  By now, I had one other dealer who was really anxious to sell me a tub too.  So I had the two dealerships fighting for my business.  We took some time to do wet tests on several models that we liked from both dealers.  One even opened his store on a Sunday to accomodate our schedule.  My last chess move was to be brutally honest...I told each dealer who the other one was that I was working with, which specific models I was down to, and what current price we were at.  I gave each a bottom line price that I would give for their model, which was way below their initial price, and I finally went with the dealer that I felt more comfortable with, and could see being helpful after the sale. 

Now before any dealers here say I took food out of their mouths, and was asking them to give me a tub, PLEEEEZE.  If they weren't still making money, they wouldn't have sold me a tub. 

Bottom line advice from me (an admitted novice tub owner) is this...my experience taught me that this industry (at least in my area) is VERY competitive, and the price you're given initially is no where near what their bottom line price is.  Dealing on price is part of the game here.  So be a smart consumer...1) take your time! Don't get frustrated at the process...know that it's typical.  2) do your homework on the models you like.  Look on the product websites, and ask questions on sites like this one.  You'll learn a lot.  3) whatever models you think you like, WET TEST THEM asap, because what feels great sitting in dry will likely not feel great when in them wet.  The experts on this site encouraged me to do that, and I can honestly say I would've bought the wrong tub if I hadn't wet tested them.  4) don't be afraid to dicker with dealers, provided you have done your homework, and you know an approximate bottom line price.  You aren't trying to steal a tub...just get a reasonable deal.  5) don't forget about service...which dealer has better service, because at some point you will need them.  One of the dealers I was working with didn't have service people in the area...they came from another store 1 1/2 hours away.  This is part of the homework. 

So don't get frustrated.  Take your time and use the current economy to your advantage.  Be a smart consumer.

[dasher]

I want to thank you both for your comments, My wife and I went out and looked at a few other models today and still really like the quality of the Sundance. A few notes on where we are so far:

1. Looked at many brands
2. Wet tested the Jacuzzi J-355 and Sundance Optima and Chelsee.
Jacuzzi: A little quieter then the Sundance or a lot quieter then the Sundance with the air system on. The lounge seat was to short for me my feet were over the foot jets and not comfortable. Overall good jets, not great but not bad at all.
Due to the short lounger we now have a quote on a J-375 but the dealer does not have it in stock.
Sundance: We liked the lounger in the optima but the Spa is way to big for the 2 of us. We didn't like the rased foot thing in the base of the Chelsee it made us both feel like our legs were up to our chest.  So the Chelsee is out we are now looking at a Cameo but the dealer doesn't have one to wet test, the good news is I found out 2 different family members have Sundance Cameo spas so when I am visiting realitives for Christmas gonna do a true wet test! We really liked the jets in the Sundance, Lots of power and well positioned from the 2 we did wet test. The only possible negative about the Sundance is the Air system, it's loud and seems to be blowing in cold air,  hate to try it outside in January when I am visiting relatives in Nebraska.
3. Current quotes now are $9995 for the Sundance Cameo and $10,049 for the Jacuzzi J-375.
4. Two other tubs we are going to look at yet are the Hotspring and D1 but in my area I have concerns about both dealers, one has closed all his showrooms and has 1 spa set up in his wharehouse entry room. The other just has mixed feedback about service after the sale.
5. May put this off a bit to try to find a J375 and New Cameo to wet test, if we have to buy without a test I will lean to the Cameo from what my family tells me they think.

I will post when more of my spa adventure continues...

In the mean time does anyone have any feedback for me on the air system on the Sundance tubs, Loud, cold ect. Is it worth it? Good or bad feedback is appreciated, I want all the information I can get.

Thanks again for the great information.

Dasher

[Tdbo]

I have bought two spas and I am in total agreement with you about the experience.  Buying a spa is worse than buying a car.  On my first spa, to get a price that I thought was reasonable, I ended buying one outside of Chicago and driving it back to Ohio on a trailer ($1100 cheaper, and even though it was an adventure, it worked out well.)
On the second, I decided I was too old for such adventure and drama.  I went looking locally and narrowed it down to three brands Jacuzzi/Sundance/Artisian, and then the games began. I took the tact that I usually take when I buy a car.  I e-mailed every hot tub dealer I could find in a 100 mile radius and they started e-mailing quotes.  The dealer I bought off of (60 miles away) had 6 last year model Sundances and the quotes were $800 better than I could do locally.  I drove up and was able to do some minor dickering and got a cover lifter thrown in as well as well as waiving the "extended delivery" fee. The delivery went without a hitch and the single service call I have had was fine. IMO best time is to wait until the model year change and look at last year's models.

[wmccall]

Welcome to the forum, and I do appreciate your frustration. However, I think you have come to a realization of how things are and now that it is out of the way, you can use it to your benefit.  Once the dealers realize you are a serious buyer,  you have all the power.  Once you start making multiple visits they realize how serious you are and that your not going to buy the hype, they might start getting serious.  I can appreciate the frustration up to this point, but now, try to have some fun.   I could be happy in either spa, so see what they will do for you.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 The price you got on the J-355 is good, the J-375 to me is high.  Jacuzzi owns Sundance so the are very similar construction wise, some will argue that the 800 series only matches up to the Jacuzzi 400 series for which I disagree.  The 300 series Jacuzzi is a very nice spa with great jetting.  As far as air goes both are similar as far as what comes out of the jet.  The Sundance does offer the air blower which does nothing but add air to the spa through little holes here and there.  Some like it some don't I personally don't care for it.  Basically its vacuum cleaner on reverse.  Value wise the 300 spa has a lot to offer.

 If you want to discuss further feel free to call me,  360) 424-4132  Don't mind at all

[dax]

I'm outside Philly and paid $1000 less than the quote you got for my Sundance Cameo back in 2007.

Cameo is a great tub.  I love the lounger, but the wife floats out of it.  Plus her legs aren't long enough to reach the foot jets in the lounger anyway.  But she loves the therapy seat  with the whirlpool jets on her feet so she doesn't mind that the lounger isn't for her.  Your mileage may vary so make sure whoever is going to use the tub actually wet tests it.

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[Vinny]

Wow, back in late 2004 I was seeing the J-345 for around $6000, I think, (definately under 7K) and each number higher was about $500 more ... boy have spa prices gone up!

The price you got on the J-355 is good, the J-375 to me is high.  Jacuzzi owns Sundance so the are very similar construction wise, some will argue that the 800 series only matches up to the Jacuzzi 400 series for which I disagree.  The 300 series Jacuzzi is a very nice spa with great jetting.  As far as air goes both are similar as far as what comes out of the jet.  The Sundance does offer the air blower which does nothing but add air to the spa through little holes here and there.  Some like it some don't I personally don't care for it.  Basically its vacuum cleaner on reverse.  Value wise the 300 spa has a lot to offer.

 If you want to discuss further feel free to call me,  360) 424-4132  Don't mind at all

[Swell-Tub]

I have never regretted getting my Jacuzzi J-470 and the most I have ever had in it at the same time was 4 people. Most the time it is 1 or 2 people. My J-470 is about the same size as the Sundance Optima which I considered as well. My point is the hot tub can never be too big but it can be too small.

The best thing I liked about the Jacuzzi over the Sundance was the jets. Jacuzzi puts air into the jets and Sundance used air pumps to put bubbles in the tub. I have had one service call in near two years so my Jacuzzi has been very dependable. Sometimes I wish I had bought the J-480 because I want a lounger but then I just stretch across corner to corner and have what I need.

Best of luck in your search.

[sbonder]

I am looking in Atlanta too.  So far the maax dealer makes me feel comfortable.  we have a mutual acquaintance, so that puts me at ease.  just don't know much about their spas.  The D1 guy up by Roswell seems good with no high pressure sale, but thus far i have only been in touch with him by phone and email.  planning a visit next week.

[dasher]

Once again I want to thank everyone for the comments and ideas. Sbonder, please keep us informed of your visits to dealers and what you find. I am moving onto another project for the hot tub, we are planning to put it up on our deck that is 20 by 24 and 11 feet off the ground. So we have to work on support for the Tub getting electrical run, we have a SPA 50 amp circuit right now but it has a disconnect but no GFCI, so I now have to see about upgrading the circuit to 60 amp, adding the GFCI, and getting conduit run from the shutoff to the area the SPA will go. It's amazing how much work is going into getting this onto the deck.

I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas.

Dasher

[sbonder]

Dasher,
I have the same concern about D1 in Atlanta.  The local dealer has an F on BBB and a number of complaints on ripoff.com.  Nevertheless, I will go wet test the spas.  If you wet test D1 and we both end up inclined toward D1, I have an idea worth discussing off the forum.
Regardless of what you decide, let me know before you buy.  A sale to 2 customers at once may save us both money.  Feel free to email me at sbonder@friedbonder.com