It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!

[bosco0633]

tom, yes that is great reading my last 50 posts.  Im not saying nor did I ever say that I hated my tub.  In fact I love my tub.  I am saying that I have been mislead about a couple of things.  That being said, I did find that one sentence in my warranty, however, when things were explained to me, they didnt read over the small print, and I guess for sake of a sale, they lied to me.  This is what is most disturbing.

I sent you a pm in February with a cover issue, and this is what your response was:

Subject: Re: cover problem
« Date: Feb 19th, 2008, 3:15pm » Quote from bosco0633 on Feb 11th, 2008, 6:42pm:
Hello Tom, Just wondering if you can tell me what I am covered for on my cover.  The leather is beginning to tare apart on the middle where the two cover pieces join.  It is not on a seem, however, it is the actual leather ripping.  Is this a warranty issue?

Sorry, not something I can handle from afar!  Please draw this to your dealer's attention and work through your local store.  
Take good quality high-res photos to have for backup.
 
Thanks
Tom

My store said, nothitng.  I left 2 messages with the service department and never got a call back.

If you are refferring to the rodent issue and cedar trim that was damaged, no it was never addressed.  You took care of it, and told me to call someone in Oakville.  I called them and they told me not a warranty issue and that I was misinformed.  Then i told you that and you said that you would look into it.  never happened.

So I stuffed the large hole with foam spray, and steel wool to correct the problem as best as I could.

Other than changing the jets Tom, arctic has done nothing for me.  New managers, new policies all this stuff, who cares.  I have been misinformed, and I feel that I have been left alone.  So for these reasons, I sit here very upset with pour quality service and lack of a solid warranty.

Again, I love my tub, I love owning an arctic tub, I have been a believer before the rest of the industry and members of this forum truely accepted Arctic Spa as a leading manufacturer.  I havent been on this board for sometime, and the only thing that I really see is more arctic dealers on this forum.  

There is nothing to help me out with.  You cant change a 20.00 gas fee that has been implemented which I totally disagree with, you cant help me with issues I have, as you said in the pm you send me, you sure cant make the service department better.  I mean honestly, if someone asks what an error code means and you can hear the call taker shop it around to other people around them, and they still dont know what the error is, then what kind of quality support is that?

I have sent my local store many people in to purchase an arctic spa, and will continue to recommend, but they will all know just how crappy the local service has been.  In my line of work Tom, one individual screws up, the hole department wears thier mistake, so I truely feel that your company should take a look at local service policies a little more than what is taking place.

[Too Tense]

Bosco

Thank You for the heads up on my post Arctic or Clearwater. I've been on the fence between these two Spa manufacttures.

I've been in business for 34 years selling to the public high ticket items 10-100K, and if there is one thing, and one thing only that I have to offer that separates me from my competition is my service to the customer first and fore most.The second most important is the customer feeling comfortable in doing business with me, and third is my price, people are willing to pay a little more up front as long as the service and quality of that service is there. I have had to make some very important business decisions costing thousands out of my pocket to satisfy my customers. This has paid off 10 fold making that one customer happy because that one customer sent many new customers that purchased from my company and not the competition.

Here is my thought about your spa issues  

1. Arctic Spas should have taken all these Spas back to there factroy that were on the train that derailed.
This is the only way to do proper quality control before sending this units out to there valued customers.
I'd be willing too bet  Arctic received some kind of settlement from either the Railroad or there Insurance Co. for unforeseen damages to there New Spas.

2. Arctic choose too sell these Spas as New Spas to there valued customers knowing that they were damaged in shipment. Again I fell this was a poor business decision on ther part. These should not have been sold as New Spas, but as Referbs only and disclosing why they are Referbs allowing the customer to make there own decision.

3. Arctic Spas is looking at the their bottom line and nothing else. Too grow at the right pace you have to have full control of your company at all times making sure that the customers come first no matter what, or the company cannot growfor very long before it crashes and burns.

4.Arctic can no longer look the other way on any repair issues with these Spas that were on this Train Derailment. They short changed there customers by selling defective Spas as New with unforeseen  damages, and future unpredictable problems. This is now coming to the surface and my bite them hard in the@# for many years to come. A quick buck then maybe very expensive to the bottom line for many years to come.

All the issues that Bosco listed with his Spa can easily be contributed too lets say a sudden jolt, or stop. I don't know about you but Spas weren't made to take this kind of punishment.

Unless Arctic Spas had Bosco and all the other customers sign a disclaimer disclosing that there maybe unforeseen damages, Arctic needs too start kissing @#'s.

I was seriously considering buying a Summit Legend SE. Not anymore.I will buy a Spa made in the USA. It will be a Clearwater Orlando Sig.

Sorry for the long write up.

D.L.

[Tom]

I am going to claim an armistice, here.  

For the past two years, I have done my best to help anyone who reports a problem on this forum, and I think with  good success.    

I only learned of this thread this morning.   Please give us a little time.

[Summitman]

Bosco

Thank You for the heads up on my post Arctic or Clearwater. I've been on the fence between these two Spa manufacttures.

I've been in business for 34 years selling to the public high ticket items 10-100K, and if there is one thing, and one thing only that I have to offer that separates me from my competition is my service to the customer first and fore most.The second most important is the customer feeling comfortable in doing business with me, and third is my price, people are willing to pay a little more up front as long as the service and quality of that service is there. I have had to make some very important business decisions costing thousands out of my pocket to satisfy my customers. This has paid off 10 fold making that one customer happy because that one customer sent many new customers that purchased from my company and not the competition.

Here is my thought about your spa issues  

1. Arctic Spas should have taken all these Spas back to there factroy that were on the train that derailed.
This is the only way to do proper quality control before sending this units out to there valued customers.
I'd be willing too bet  Arctic received some kind of settlement from either the Railroad or there Insurance Co. for unforeseen damages to there New Spas.

2. Arctic choose too sell these Spas as New Spas to there valued customers knowing that they were damaged in shipment. Again I fell this was a poor business decision on ther part. These should not have been sold as New Spas, but as Referbs only and disclosing why they are Referbs allowing the customer to make there own decision.

3. Arctic Spas is looking at the their bottom line and nothing else. Too grow at the right pace you have to have full control of your company at all times making sure that the customers come first no matter what, or the company cannot growfor very long before it crashes and burns.

4.Arctic can no longer look the other way on any repair issues with these Spas that were on this Train Derailment. They short changed there customers by selling defective Spas as New with unforeseen  damages, and future unpredictable problems. This is now coming to the surface and my bite them hard in the@# for many years to come. A quick buck then maybe very expensive to the bottom line for many years to come.

All the issues that Bosco listed with his Spa can easily be contributed too lets say a sudden jolt, or stop. I don't know about you but Spas weren't made to take this kind of punishment.

Unless Arctic Spas had Bosco and all the other customers sign a disclaimer disclosing that there maybe unforeseen damages, Arctic needs too start kissing @#'s.

I was seriously considering buying a Summit Legend SE. Not anymore.I will buy a Spa made in the USA. It will be a Clearwater Orlando Sig.

Sorry for the long write up.

D.L.

Being a Arctic Dealer Owner myself I know that we prepay for freight and spas before they leave the factory.  I also know that the Dealer is responsible for filing claims of damage on any spa or merchandise received.  This is between the Dealer and the transportation provider.  Arctic DOES NOT pay for the freight costs the dealer assumes all these costs and is therefore responsible for making sure all product is received in satisfactory condition.  Again, like all circumstances that Bosco has gone thru this is strictly dealer issues, and had the dealer taken care of like trained this would all be a nonissue.  Problems happen on any spa that is bought and delivered no matter what brand, its how well the dealer takes care of the problem that matters.  Obviously Bosco has had issues that could have been taken care of faster, but in Arctics case they have taken care of the situation as good as they can.  If I receive damaged product on a truck its my responsibility to check the product from shipping damage and report it to the shipper, not Arctic.  Once it leaves the factory its strictly between the dealer and the shipper.  They are strictly the buyer and provider.  

If one thinks that Arctic is the only manufacturer to have some headaches along the way they should check out the BBB records of ALL the major manufacturers, including the following Clearwater report.
http://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=114&bbb=1296&firm=27028748

Its pretty easy to check them all out find the address of the manufacturers then check out the local BBB report of each manufacturer.

[starsky]

It is frustrating no matter what the product when the manufacturer and the seller (Dealer) can each wash their hands of the problems by pointing at each other. It happens in many areas of the business world and the consumer is left holding the bag. It's MY opinion that a manufacturer of a product like this, be it a Hot tub, or a SUV, has a responsibility once a dealer is identified that is not representing their product, or supporting it in the field. They need to shut the dealer down. Nothing more frustrating for a consumer to be told by the dealer, its a manufacturing issue, and then by the Manufacturer, its a dealer issue..  

[Wet in ChiTown]

I meant to post this in this topic.

Please stop whining.  There are NO guarantees in life. Warranties are just a another tactic to help them make a sale....nothing more.
 
Sometimes you kick....sometimes you get kicked. Deal with it.
 
Stop blaming everyone, fix the problem and move on.  Poop happens and you just happened to be the one to step in it.
 
Just my opinion.
 
Smile...life is fun !!!!
 

[bosco0633]

well, chi town,I agree poop happens.  I was never offered a new tub after a train derailment, even when I asked they said no.  I
 waited for my tub, it ran late on delivery and I took it.  I had a damaged cedar skirt and was told that they would replace it, instead they sanded it and restained it, doesnt look as nice.  But hey I took it.  
I replaced jets one at a time, and hey I took it.  I had a pump issue within the first month, they came took it apart and put the old one back in, but hey i took it.  T
They drilled a hole in the bottom of my forever floor, obviously to big which allowed mice inside the tub, no one ever came to fix it because it was not a warranty issue, so I fixed it myself and I took it.  
I had a vibration from crappy wire work when they connected the wires to the tub, and I fixed it because they wouldnt, I took it.  
I left messages about my cover tearing with no response but guess what, I took it.  I had 4 to 6 inches of water in the bottom of my tub today, and was told 100.00 an hour if not a warranty issue also 20.00 for gas, and guess what friend I did the work myself today because I am sick of taking it man.  Not worth it.  I paid 12,000.00 for my hot tub.  I love it, always have, always will, but honestly how much poo poo do you want me to take.

It is bull shat, I want others to no the troubles that I have had with my warranty.  To many small things making up to a big deal.  Now im frustrated and sick of the company that sold me my tub.  Maybe not arctic spas company directly but the sales and service department that I had dealt with.

[Too Tense]

GoArcitic

I disagree with you, the dealer is not the one that arranges there own shipping from the factory too them. That is all handled from the manufactures end to get the volume discounted prices for all their dealers. This is know different then Mercedes-Benz shipping vehicles to there independently owned dealerships. If a train derails carrying a load MB vehicles you can bet that not one of those vehicles will ever be sold no matter how minor the damage. This is called Quality Control!!!!

I will agree that it is up to the dealer to refuse damage goods. Bottom line is Who's Name that appears on the product needs too make sure that the valued customer is getting what they paid for a top quality spa.

If the dealer can't cut it it's time too find a new dealer that will. The manufacture is responsible from start to finish. Sure there will be some warranty claims, but it needs to be handle with the least amount  of  aggravation possible. When a spa manufacture wants to be known as a top quality line they have to surround them selfs with dealers of the same standards.

Your only as good as the support given to the customer. If there is a weak link it needs to be replace ASAP and that comes from the the comany who's name is on the product.

[Summitman]

GoArcitic

I disagree with you, the dealer is not the one that arranges there own shipping from the factory too them. That is all handled from the manufactures end to get the volume discounted prices for all their dealers. This is know different then Mercedes-Benz shipping vehicles to there independently owned dealerships. If a train derails carrying a load MB vehicles you can bet that not one of those vehicles will ever be sold no matter how minor the damage. This is called Quality Control!!!!

I will agree that it is up to the dealer to refuse damage goods. Bottom line is Who's Name that appears on the product needs too make sure that the valued customer is getting what they paid for a top quality spa.

If the dealer can't cut it it's time too find a new dealer that will. The manufacture is responsible from start to finish. Sure there will be some warranty claims, but it needs to be handle with the least amount  of  aggravation possible. When a spa manufacture wants to be known as a top quality line they have to surround them selfs with dealers of the same standards.

Your only as good as the support given to the customer. If there is a weak link it needs to be replace ASAP and that comes from the the comany who's name is on the product.

We can agree to disagree then cause the dealer is the one that pays the freight costs and is responsible for getting damage taken care of.  Also have we ever heard a direct response from Arctic in regards to a train derailment?  It is possible that the damage came from something else and not a train derailment.  I have a hard time imagining a train derailment that doesnt damage the cedar cabinet to a unrepairable manner.  

[hottubdan]

Do we really know a train derailed?

Perhaps this was a poor excuse for a delayed delivery and a damaged skirt.

A heads up that there is a travel fee and what the hourly rate is if not warranty is actually good business.  Bosco, would you not want it disclosed?

However, given the history you have had, I would be concerned also.  You have been taken advantage of.  You should still be insisting they take care of the cabinet as well as the cover and the current leak.  

good luck.

[Cdn HockeyPuck]

I guess the lesson for everyone else is don't take delivery of a spa that has been damaged, no matter what the dealer says they can do to fix it. Insist on a new one. Unfortunately this is too late for Bosco.

What was said about insisting all your problems get fixed is probably a good course of action. If they don't get fixed then a claim into the BBB about the dealer (NOT the manufacturer) might be your next step.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Summitman]

Do we really know a train derailed?

Perhaps this was a poor excuse for a delayed delivery and a damaged skirt.

A heads up that there is a travel fee and what the hourly rate is if not warranty is actually good business.  Bosco, would you not want it disclosed?

However, given the history you have had, I would be concerned also.  You have been taken advantage of.  You should still be insisting they take care of the cabinet as well as the cover and the current leak.  

good luck.

I agree 100 percent, the cabinet, cover, and the leak all should be taken care of.  

[Wet in ChiTown]

I don't know any of the details of this train derailment, but it could just be one train car that jumped the track causing everything on that train to arrive late.  Just because they said it will be late because of a train derailment doesn't mean that it was a full blown, every car flipped over derailment.

I don't remember Harrison Ford dodging flying Artic Spas as he was running from the train derailment in The Fugitive.  

But it does sound like they are working with you. I believe you have to work together.

Late delivery:  no big deal, you are ordering something that is being made for you. A lot of things have to happen before it gets to you. Ordering a floor model can fix this one. Ever try ordering a special order car.


Damaged cedar skirt: must not have been that bad if a sanding and staining fixed it. You are going to have to stain it anyway...its wood, if possible that is how you fix wood. If not possible, you replace. Must have been possible. And they did it for you.

Replaced jets one at a time: I assume you didn't pay for the new jets. You had to twist off a few jets and then twist some new ones back on.  Ouch  This would fall under the "working together" category.

Drilled hole and mice got in: Service people fix other peoples stuff, it is my opinion that it is the owners responsibility to watch them. They leave after they are done and really don't care. I would think that you would have noticed a hole in your flooring and asked him about it before he left or just fix it yourself. It doesn't take a spa service tech to foam a small hole.

Cover tearing: Not sure on this one, but it sounds like if it is tearing at the stitching it should be replace and covered by warranty. Or is some outside force that is scraping or tearing it and I would think that it would not be covered by warranty.

4 inches of water in bottom of tub: A lot of companies are charging this type of fee these days. They are trying to discourage everyone of wanting some to come out for every little thing, like "my spa is not working" and the spa tech comes out to find out that the breaker tripped. Silly stuff like that. You said "100.00 an hour if not a warranty issue". So if its a "spa leak" it is covered under your warranty and no $100 charge. If they find its not the spa and find its a "user error" or something else like that, well then its a $100 charge for their time. People don't work for free and people should be charged to unnecessary service visits. If its a real manufacturing issue I'm  sure you will not be changed this fee.

It sounds like you are just frustrated because of all this happened around the same time and it started to get to you. I can understand that. But what if you have your spa for another 6-7-8 year and don't have any other major problems. I'm sure you will say that you overreacted in the beginning.

I work in IT and I take a lot of customer service calls. And believe me, everyone thinks that their problem is the most important. And everyone also thinks that if they have a bad experience with their problem getting resolved they want to yell from the rooftops and tell everyone they will have the same results. And that is just not true.

Hand in there, take a deep breath, and its not as bad as it seems.

My spa is arriving to my dealers warehouse next week. They said they will inspect it and fill it with water at the warehouse to make sure everything works. I told them I want to be there to do my own inspecting at the warehouse before they deliver it to my house.  They said "sure, that's a good idea".

Nobody cares more about my stuff than me.

[bosco0633]

well i was told that it was a derailment and that is why the tub was late for one and two why the cedar was damaged.  

According to some new info that was brought to my attention, the service this way claimed that they filled the damage, however, they sanded the hell out of it and stained it where it never matched and has lost its smooth finish as they had to sand in.  The side cabinets were never fixed and I had to do it myself.  i sanded and stained the tub.  It is still noticeable but it looks better.  They were going to replace the piece but never did.

They also said that it was not possible to return the tub the day that they brought it here with the damage, and although there were some marks they never fixed it.  I accepted this because I figured they would correct it.

Then I had the waterfall fixed, the service department billed arctic for a replacement, but they never replaced it.  They warmed the plastic, jammed a knife in it and bent it open, causing to warp but stay open.  why did they bill arctic for a replacement when they never replaced it??

Then my pump was a mess they took the pump out, looked at it and told me that they would get me one of the new yellow ones, never got it, put my old one back in.  Guess what, they claimed a pump replacement on the warranty.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmm strange.

These repairs and replacements were being billed but I never recieved any of the things that they billed for.  

[Wet in ChiTown]

My three favorite saying are:

"Nobody loves you more that your parents."

"Nobody cares more about your stuff than you."

and

"Don't forget what Mick Jagger says, You can't always get what you want."

I have been saying these three things to my kids there entire lives. I think I have said these to them so much they might have lost there meaning. But I'm sure one day I will hear them saying them to there kids. Boy that will put a smile on my face.