Swell-Tub's New Spa Search

[Swell-Tub]

So I will post my adventures as I seek out a new spa. So far I put money down on a Coast Spa Radiance and loved the tub from a dry test only. Well I did stick my arm in it and it felt great. It had 3 - 5 hp motors in it with led lights and a cool waterfall. Also the sound system with sub-woofer, equilizer, and floating remote was cool. Then I started to hear lack of support issues and parts from Canada were a problem. Also they enclose the plumbing in foam which make repairs difficult. So I cancelled the order and gave up my deposit.

Next I went to a Hot Springs dealer and they only had 4 tubs on the floor and only one was wet. The wet one was a Caldera and it seemed under powered. Again this was based on only a arm test and the dealer said that while the design saved power it did not allow for all jets to be run at the same time.

I looked into an Elite and Dynasty but this forum told me that both had problems and poor support. I haven't seen one yet but I have a co-worker who has a Dynasty and he uses it twice a day every day for several years now and he loves his but wants a bigger tub. He says his 8X8 is not large enough to stretch out in.

What I want is a spa that has quality, support, great performance, and ease of operation. I want to come home at night and go out the french doors of my master bedroom and climb into a nice relaxing experience. Then other than chemicals and some light maintainance. I don't want to think about it much. I also want a nice waterfall with lights to watch from my bedroom at nights. LEDs seem to be the ticket because they last a long time and provide bright colors. I would like to stay around $10K or less but I was going to spend $15K for the Coast Spa out the door.

I'm going to try to find the new Jacuzzi dealer here in Vegas and see what they have to offer. Also Renee is closing a store and I hear they have some great deals on last years Hot Springs. Next weekend is a Spa show here in Vegas and I might attend that as well. What I don't want is 900 lbs of trouble in my backyard. I'm sure used spas are not easy to get rid of. While I was house hunting here in Vegas last year I saw several properties with empty Spas in the backyard that appeared to be large boat anchors for the home.

If all tubs are nothing but an income for the repairman then I will continue to just soak in my bathtub at nights. Anyway I will keep you all posted on my Spa adventure and see where it ends. I have appreciated most of the advice I have gotten from this forum so far.

Thanks,
Scott  

[Vinny]

Scott,

I added my $0.02 before and I'll add it again.

There are better brands and not better brands. The dealer can make a difference in the spa ownership. If you get great service from someone and crappy service from another - the brand doesn't matter much.

Being on this board for a long time, maybe too long I can say that most of us have had the experience that you are seeking. Do tubs break - yes they do but so do cars, home heating systems and appliances; everything breaks down every so often.

Personally I have had 2 problems with my tub - jets breaking and an air control stopped working. Both problems have been taken care under my warranty, which ends this June. My dealer has been pretty good - she has replaced the jets under warranty every time (I think 6 have gone) and I installed them which isn't a big deal.

My first advice to you was to find tubs that you like. I understand that there may not be too many dealers around you so pick the dealers that sell good brands - this was already listed and visit all that are there. Forget all the stuff dealers want you to believe why their tub is special - they all provide clean, hot swirling water ... my pick may not be yours!

Enjoy your search but do search. Don't get caught up in sales dribble and remember even though we may have different and sometimes conflicting opinions here - ask anything question you might need to clarify - we'll try to help. Opinions are just that, ultimatly the best tub is the one you are happy with.

[Swell-Tub]

Thanks Vinny.
Well being new to the whole tub thing I hear that a titanium heater or a stainless steel heater with teflon coating is needed here in Las Vegas because the water from Lake Mead is so heavy with calcium and other things that heaters don't last long here. Also 2/3 of the dealers here in Las Vegas have gone under with the big housing problem here and the ones who remain have cut down the number of stores and reduced their inventory. I have been told that a couple of dealers here in LV are very dishonest and to avoid at all costs. The problem is that I'm down to like 4 dealers here and my choices are only Coast Spa, Hot Springs, Caldera, Dynasty, Elite and possibly Jacuzzi. I was interested in the Dimension One but the nearest dealer is in California.

I worry that I need to get it right the first time because getting rid of a used tub is not an easy thing to do. I'm caring for 2 elderly parents and raising a 4 month old grandson. So we could use some relaxing hot water in our backyard so I think it will be used most of the year except July - August when it gets 117 degrees outside. I'm not sure how to tell if a dealer is going to be a good dealer in the long run. They all talk a big talk before the sell....

Thanks,
Scott  

[wmccall]

I think it will be used most of the year except July - August when it gets 117 degrees outside. I'm not sure how to tell if a dealer is going to be a good dealer in the long run.
Thanks,
Scott  

How cool does it get on those nights?  With the tub at 95-97, it can be cool and refreshing, it you can get it that cool, and great with the jets.

As for the dealer, its a crap shoot.  There are a couple of people here, myself included who bought from dealers who had been in business for 20 years, and had then go under after they purchased.  

[Swell-Tub]

The evenings cool down a lot. I work construction on the Las Vegas Strip and my crews are off the job by 2:30PM everyday because the hottest part of the day is 4:00PM. All the concrete and asphalt builds up heat during the day and at 4 you can burn the bottom of your feet even with flip flops on. But after July - August the weather down here is great. We have been in the 60's and 70's the last couple of weeks.

I'm told that a air blower is useful down here during the summer months. Only problem like with the Coast Spa you have to give up a motor for the blower. So you can have 3 motors and no blower or 2 motors and a blower. I really like the 3 motor setup because you could dedicate one to the waterfall and another to the volcano and so forth. One person on this forum told me that they don't use the blower because of the noise.

I recommended to a spa dealer that they might want to figure out a way to cool down a spa for summer use. That way after a hot day you could cool down in a spa without buying a pool.

Scott  

[Richs100]

Hi Swell-Tub

Since you have a Hot Spring dealer in your area, I'll throw in my two cents.  I understand that you went to this dealer and the only tub that was filed was a Caldera.  You need to be aware that the Caldera and several other lines (Hot Spot, Tiger River, Solana) are owned by Hot Spring's owner, Watkins, but are not Hot Spring tubs.  They are different lines, some of which I understand developed from different ideas prior to the acquisition of their companies by Watkins.  Hot Spring Spas is the premium line of all the hot tub companies owned by Watkins.

I am a longtime owner.  My first was a 93 Prodigy that ran great until it was hit by a falling tree.  My new tub is an 06 Hot Spring Envoy.  The Envoy is a "high performance" tub in the HS lineup.  The power of the jets is great.  I've had my new tub since Nov 06, and the only real problem I have had was the upgrading of the auxiliary control panel which took about two minutes.  

Also, in almost 15 years of HS full foam ownership, I have never, ever had a leak.  And I believe that most full foam owners will tell you the same.  I'm not preaching full foam vs. thermal pane, because each system is great if properly done.  It just seems to me that the thermal pane system is more difficult to do right; thus people are more likely to encounter problems with insulation and heating costs, especially with the lower price, less well known tubs.  Personally, I would only consider a Thermal Pane tub if I could assure myself from the git-go that the manufacturer had a stellar record insulating with this method.

Since it doesn't appear that you have had the opportunity to actually test a HS tub, you should ask the dealer to fill one of the HS models you like and give it a shot.

Also, ignore the "Consumer Digest - Best Buy Award".  It's a scam.  "Consumer Digest" is not "Consumer Reports".
Hot Spring and other major manufacturers have determined its worth buying these "awards" each year.  (and frankly, its the only slimy thing I've ever encountered with Hot Spring or Watkins)  

Finally, some friendly advice:  Put your wallet away until you are sure which tub you want.  You aren't buying the Mona Lisa.  
If you miss a deal on a pearl tub with gray sides, you can be sure another one just like it is coming off the factory line!

[Vinny]

Did Artesian close their factory store?

They are built in LV and I had heard they have a store attached to their factory.

A bunch of happy Artesian owners here ... I am one as well.

[Swell-Tub]

I know there is a right tub out there for everyone. It appears that Hot Springs and Jacuzzi are the Kings of the Hill on this forum. Hot Springs are sold in my area by Renee and I have only heard good things about Renee. I haven't hooked up with the local Jacuzzi dealer yet as they are brand new (I think).

What I have been told is to check the quality of the tub. Is it poured or vacuumed? How thick is it and how is it finished. The sun down here is hard on a fiberglass finish. Next is the quality of the jets, plumbing, and motors. After that is dealer support and warranty. So far my favorite tub was the Coast Spa but the last item is why I walked away.

Who is Watkins anyway? And why do they have several lines. I think if I was a manufacturer I would have a high quality line and a mid line. Then put all my R&D into the 2 lines  and keep the number of models down to a useful number.

Scott  

[Chas]

Who is Watkins anyway? And why do they have several lines.
Scott  

Watkins manufacturing is the largest tub maker on the planet, bar none. They are owned by a publicly traded company called Masco. Look them up. Very solid.

They have amassed an impressive number of industry awards, and they are very good at pressing the dealers to offer good after-sale service. They are straight-shooters and I have enjoyed working with them for the past 21 years - which has included more than one downturn in the economy. I don't think they are going to go away on you. Even if your local dealer fades - no likely since she has been around a good long time AND she has other irons in the fire including inground pools and spas - the factory will be there to get anything taken care of that you might need. Hey, they can send me on a road trip if needed, I haven't been to Vegas in a while.

Since Renee is only showing part of the line right now, it will be harder for you to see the entire line and to experience the jets and seating of a HotSpring. However, I think it would be worth your effort to do so. If it would be possible for you to visit Southern Cal, I would be glad to show you the entire line of HotSpring, Tiger River, Solana and Hot Spot tubs, and let you soak in any that you wish to. I can't sell to you, but I would be glad to pick you up at the airport and drive you to a local dealer. If you fly into San Diego I will take you to the factory and have them give you a tour before you see all the tubs in their beautiful showroom.

I could take you to a Caldera showroom, one of the very first ones which ever existed, and you can sample those tubs there.

Let me know if I can help.

 8-)

[Swell-Tub]

Did Artesian close their factory store?

They are built in LV and I had heard they have a store attached to their factory.

A bunch of happy Artesian owners here ... I am one as well.

Vinny,
They appear to still be in business. They are up in the Northern Las Vegas area. I haven"t heard much about Artesian spas and you are the only one who has had something to say about them. My co-worker sells spas on the side and uses his Dynasty twice a day for his arthritis. I'll ask him what he knows about Artesian.

Thanks,
Scott  

[IL Parrothead]

Swell, I'm also going to throw my 2 cents in, and some of it will repeat what others above have said.  First, I'm a consumer, not a dealer or salesman.  Read this forum and others and ignore what most salesmen in stores tell you.  I've found they either "fudge" on the truth a little or may even be not fully informed.  They may know a decent amount about their particular brand, but many don't know anything about the other brands.
Forget the full foam finding leaks argument.  I agree wholeheartedly with Richs.  Full foam is GENERALLY a better idea, only because there are only 1 or 2 companies that insulate with other methods (sometimes called thermal pain or heat lock) that have it right.  Arctic and Coleman come to mind.  The rest of the companies using non-full foam methods appear to be cutting costs and are not well insulated.  May not be a big deal in Vegas, but full foam also helps insulate the noise of the internal components.
I'll give you what I have consistently seen to be the list of the top tubs for quality and owner satisfaction (in no particular order, and I may miss a couple):  Marquis, Hot Spring, Caldera, Jacuzzi, Sundance, D1 and Arctic....a few others seem pretty popular too -- Artesian, Coleman, Bullfrog.  After that, it's all 3rd tier or lower.
Finally, my biggest advice -- Forget sticking your arm in a tub.  Sounds like in the construction trade that therapy will be high on your list of priorities, along with quality.  You won't know what tub "fits" you best unless you wet test.  I took that advice on this forum and others, and I believe it ranks up their in importance with the quality of the tub and the quality of the dealer when deciding what to buy.
Good luck!  Keep us informed!

[searchinginfl]

Get back in the Caldera and wet test it! I'm not sure what model you were in, but I found it to be the most powerful of all the tubs I tried, plus, the lighting and waterfall were my favorite. Being in South Florida, I agree about finding a way to cool the tub. I have tried my whole icemaker, but it doesn't work. There is ONE company that does offer a cooling system, but it is an unknown company. I have also heard of an add-on to cool your spa. I do sometimes use my air blower for that reason.

I tested Dynasty, and while I loved the neck jets, found the rest of the tub to be VERY wimpy. D-1 was very uncomfortable for me, Hot Springs was good, but I didn't love it, Sundance makes a beautiful tub, but the jets didn't do it for me, plus on the one I tried, I felt like you couldn't use the foot and seat jets on high at the same time, Vita has a unique system with lots of air jets and above the water fresh cool water misters, which made me really consider this tub, just to cool down easier, but in the end, I figured I would rather have the best tub and install my own misters (same with the stereo). If I were judging by looks and what salespeople told me, I would have bought a totally different spa.....the wet test made all the difference.

[Spatech_tuo]

So I will post my adventures as I seek out a new spa. So far I put money down on a Coast Spa Radiance and loved the tub from a dry test only. Well I did stick my arm in it and it felt great. It had 3 - 5 hp motors in it with led lights and a cool waterfall. Also the sound system with sub-woofer, equilizer, and floating remote was cool. Then I started to hear lack of support issues and parts from Canada were a problem. Also they enclose the plumbing in foam which make repairs difficult. So I cancelled the order and gave up my deposit.

Next I went to a Hot Springs dealer and they only had 4 tubs on the floor and only one was wet. The wet one was a Caldera and it seemed under powered. Again this was based on only a arm test and the dealer said that while the design saved power it did not allow for all jets to be run at the same time.

1) Be careful when reading spec sheets. Those "5hp" pumps by Coast are rated in brake horsepower (an old marketing trick). They are really more like 2.5 hp when compared with spas where they state REAL horsepower.

2) Unless you are buying the tub with the intention of just sticking your arm in it at home you really should consider wet testing with your whole body.

[Swell-Tub]

The problem I have had with wet testing is that the two stores I have been in only have one or two tubs with water in them. Then the thought of walking into a store and jumping in with a suit on and then as customers come in you look like the monkey in the cage or in my case they would try to save the beached whale as all the water left the tub upon my entrance. I know I have to do the wet test but it will be my last exercise before the purchase as I know this will be a difficult task.

Now if I were to open a Spa store I would have a temporary blind I could put up around a tub for when a customer wanted to do a wet test. That way the customers could have some privacy while trying the tub out. How do you dealers do wet tests when a customer wants to try a tub you have empty on the floor?

Scott  

[Spatech_tuo]

Then the thought of walking into a store and jumping in with a suit on and then as customers come in you look like the monkey in the cage or in my case they would try to save the beached whale as all the water left the tub upon my entrance. I know I have to do the wet test but it will be my last exercise before the purchase as I know this will be a difficult task.


Scott  

Just wet test when they first open in the morning and no one is there or at the end of the day where the dealer will no doubt be happy to lock the doors and give you time while they ready the place for closing for the night.