Ask an Arctic Dealer anything

[hottubdan]

Tom,

Frankly, I don't have a lot of confidence in the following list you can download from from CEC:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/appliance/excel_based_files/Pool_Products/

However, why don't I see Arctic Spas on the list?  

For that matter, where is Sundance and Jacuzzi?  Not to mention Marquis?  (this question is for all not for Tom.)

What is a CEC approved lab?  I thought the industry was working with Cal Poly San Luis Obisbo as a neutral site.

[Summitman]

I can tell you one title which Watkins holds - "Most lines of spas offered."

I now have the following on my showroom floor -

• HotSpring Portable Spas
• Tiger River Spas
• Caldera Hot Tubs
• Limelight Spas
• Hot Spot Spas
• Solana Spas

 8-)

yippee!!!

[Tom]

Frankly, I don't have a lot of confidence in the following list you can download from from CEC

We've had many who express that opinion.

However, why don't I see Arctic Spas on the list?  

There are no Canadian spas on that initial list.  

What is a CEC approved lab?

See my previous post for a listing of approved labs

I thought the industry was working with Cal Poly San Luis Obisbo as a neutral site.

Phase I of the testing at Cal Poly is to clarify the CA Title 20 Regulation and address areas of concern to the industry.  Clarifying the CA Regulation is important as it impacts Oregon’s law which is based on Title 20.  Also, Florida, New Jersey and other states are contemplating “Title 20 like” legislation, as is Canada.  I suspect that the Canadian Office of Energy Efficiency is holding off on devising our standards until the NPIRC testing is complete.
 
Phase II of the Cal Poly testing is to begin developing the new APSP 14  Standard for the Energy Efficiency of Self-Contained Portable Electric Spas and Hot Tubs

SCOPE: This standard is to cover the test procedures and methodology for determining the energy efficiency of self-contained portable electric spas. The intent of the test procedures is to influence the design and construction specifications of such spas to maximize energy efficiency.

And see what interesting results we get when someone says, "Ask an Arctic Dealer anything"?  I took it to mean "about the company or its products", myself, but this is far more fun.

[hottubdan]

To clarify my questions:

What are the standards for a CEC lab?  How does one get set up?

OK.  There are no Canadian spas on the initial list.  This list is ongoing with spas listed from 2006 to 2008.  In fact there are less than 200 spa models on the list.  Just because there are no Canadian spas on the list is no reason that I know of that a company can't be the 1st on the list.  My understanding is when the rules go into effect in CA, in June, a spa will have to on the list to be legally sold in CA.

One more question, Tom.  Ballpark, what does it cost to get a spa certified.  My understanding has been a manufacturer self tests based on criteria you mentioned before.  Said manufacturer submits its findings.  There is no review process.  Shouldn't be too difficult to be certified.

[Tom]

To clarify my questions:

What are the standards for a CEC lab?  How does one get set up?

Go to this site as I think the information is there:  http://www.energy.ca.gov/appliances/forms/

My understanding is when the rules go into effect in CA, in June, a spa will have to on the list to be legally sold in CA.

In which case, I guess we'll have to have our results in!

One more question, Tom.  Ballpark, what does it cost to get a spa certified.  My understanding has been a manufacturer self tests based on criteria you mentioned before.  Said manufacturer submits its findings.  There is no review process.  Shouldn't be too difficult to be certified.

Darned if I know the cost, and will probably be told to MYOB if I ask.  The lack of a review process should be of concern to the consumer.  We've debated this before and IMHO it should go to join the other horsey corpses.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

  Realistically you can only squeeze so much juice out of an orange and the same will be with spa's.  How much energy use can you really reduce in a spa.  The same can be said for dryers, refrigerators, stoves and dishwashers.  At some point they will realize this.   They can test till they are blue in the face in controlled and uncontrolled situations, but spas can only be so efficient, unless they come up with some kind of alternative power.

 Nuclear???  Or better yet the Flux capacitor.

[Merlin]

100% not true? $10 -25 per month difference? Or are you talking per year? Come on... I didn't just fall off the turnip truck... I'm talking the main stream spas that we all hear about on here. Similar units, jets pump sizes, etc. With all due respect, I call BS.

Let me take a different angle here. So using the extreme in your numbers and using an average operating cost of the average spa at $40 per month, then you are suggesting that one of those lines that you mentioned was running close to $70 per month to operate? Which one? And we're not even talking an Alberta climate here? Catalina is the weakest quality of those but I dunno if I'm buying that data...

I know this forum gets used to pump up the Watkins machine at any cost but come on... :-?

Actually I'm very serious the Catalina XL 11000 at the time with a circ pump and similar features was $25 more to operate per month over a 6 month period than a Grandee. Optima was the closest at $10 more then the Onyx from Artesian was about $14 more.

We did the test for our customers while we sold all of those brands at that time. 2 years ago to be exact. As of now we only sell Watkins products and no longer display that because we have not tested new models of the other spas but our at home test that we do every year on a customers spa shows that a vanguard pulls an average per month cost of $30.95. That's 4127kw used in a years time @ $.09 per KW hour (which was the customers rate) and totals $374.43 for one years use. Customer kept their spa at 101 degrees and drained it twice and used it as they pleased.

and no im in the Mojave desert where it goes from 101-104 during the day to 20-30 at night on our desert floor.


Merlin

[wewannahottub]

Wow, I am glad I live in Pennsylvania!!!!!  

I am going to go spray some hairspray and burn some styrofoam (just kidding)

[Spatech_tuo]

 Realistically you can only squeeze so much juice out of an orange and the same will be with spa's.  How much energy use can you really reduce in a spa.  The same can be said for dryers, refrigerators, stoves and dishwashers.  At some point they will realize this.   They can test till they are blue in the face in controlled and uncontrolled situations, but spas can only be so efficient, unless they come up with some kind of alternative power.

I don't think they're necessarily trying to hold the feet to the fire for spa makers that already make energy efficient spas. They need to get a baseline and see where everyone is. What I hope to see from this is the less efficient high volume spa makers get their act together. If Master is going to sell 10k plus spas a year it would be nice if they were at least decent in the energy efficiency department (I only name them because of all the "major" brands I see more complaints about this from their customers than any other). Some spa makers just seem to have a fancy story that they tell potential customers about how they insulate and promise it'll work well but hopefully the proof will have to be in the pudding soon.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

I can tell you one title which Watkins holds - "Most lines of spas offered."

I now have the following on my showroom floor -

• HotSpring Portable Spas
• Tiger River Spas
• Caldera Hot Tubs
• Limelight Spas
• Hot Spot Spas
• Solana Spas

 8-)

 Jacuzzi owns Sundance, Jacuzzi has the 200,300 and 400 series. Sundance has the 600,700 and 800 series. I see it as a tie.   8-)

[Merlin]

But why is there no 500 series?? :-?

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 I could tell ya, but then Id have to kill you.  

[Vanguard]

 Jacuzzi owns Sundance, Jacuzzi has the 200,300 and 400 series. Sundance has the 600,700 and 800 series. I see it as a tie.   8-)

Well, if we're getting specific, Caldera has the Aquatic Melodies, Utopia Series, Paradise Series and the Highland Series.  I think that puts Watkins back in front.

[East_TX_Spa]

I'll try to get this thread back on topic.

Is Chinook a real bear?  If so, is he kept in a cage or in a natural habitat enclosure?  Is he owned by Blue Falls Manufacturing or is he rented?

We used to rent a Bengal Tiger to use at home shows.  He would sit on a rock ledge and when you pulled his tail, he would roar and it would reverberate throughout the convention center.  But, he would pee on the floor, so we quit using him.

Term

[Summitman]

I'll try to get this thread back on topic.

Is Chinook a real bear?  If so, is he kept in a cage or in a natural habitat enclosure?  Is he owned by Blue Falls Manufacturing or is he rented?

Term

"Chinook" is the name of the mascott for Arctic Spas. He's not a real bear.