Ask an Arctic Dealer anything

[Summitman]

If I get to the Mayfield Curling club, I'll stop by.

To everyone, lets bring it up a notch, lets not become the board Jimmy says we are.

I know the Hudson Bay dealer, very good people.  I dont know the mayfield dealer.  Ill take the advice and do my part on taking it up a notch.  

[James]

In a posted dated today, it was stated:

• We built our own low-temperature test chamber on site, back in 2001, so we've been testing our spas for a good long while. Any production change or new model can be tested and any energy improvement verified.  This test facility is now CEC certified.

My poor spelling aside, I’d still very much like someone to expand on Arctic’s CEC certified testing facility.

As much detail as you can give would be appreciated.

[Steve]

James; can I ask why you have this intense curiosity on Arctic specifically? As a Caldera dealer, is this for ammunition to sell against them?  :-? Can I ask what studies are available to US from Caldera to show a comparison in efficiency?

Arctic seems to be one of the few manufacturers that has done outside testing on their spas (info has been available to the general public for years) and has gone through the expense of building a low-temperature test chamber at the plant.

With all due respect to Arctic and yourself, most any major brand has very similar operating costs within a few $ a month of each other. Really a moot point... :-/

And for the record, EVERY manufacturer claims superior energy efficiency... nothing new there...

[James]

James; can I ask why you have this intense curiosity on Arctic specifically? As a Caldera dealer, is this for ammunition to sell against them?  :-? Can I ask what studies are available to US from Caldera to show a comparison in efficiency?

Arctic seems to be one of the few manufacturers that has done outside testing on their spas (info has been available to the general public for years) and has gone through the expense of building a low-temperature test chamber at the plant.

With all due respect to Arctic and yourself, most any major brand has very similar operating costs within a few $ a month of each other. Really a moot point... :-/

And for the record, EVERY manufacturer claims superior energy efficiency... nothing new there...

Dear Steve,

I'm sorry if my line of questioning seems intense. I am, after all, asking questions about Arctic, in a thread titled Ask an Artic Dealer anything. Intensity aside, if my questions are too tough, inappropriate or rude, please let me know.

Otherwise, I'd still like some dialogue on something I read. Tom mentioned that the Arctic testing facility had been California Energy Commission Certified. I would like Tom to, if he can, expand on that.

I'll be happy to answer your  Caldera questions to the best of my ability.

There is no Arctic dealer within 100+ miles of my store. I never ever compete against them. I need no ammunition to sell against them. My question would have been the same regardless of who asked it. I would have asked about CEC Title 20 regardless of the spa brand. "Ask a _____________ Dealer anything". You fill in the blank. The question would have been the same.

As far as Caldera Energy Efficiency Studies I’ll offer this and I am sure many of the other Watkins Dealers in the forum would agree.

I am sure there are volumes of testing data and research information locked snuggly in the vaults of Watkins Mfg in southern Calif. I have no doubt that there is no other spa manufacturer out there that does as much R/D on a product as Watkins.

I also know the research is expensive and proprietary. I can not imagine that you, or I, or anyone else would have an easy time getting our hands on the data.

I prefer a simpler testing method for Caldera in my area. I ask my Caldera clients how much it costs to run their spa when they visits my store.

I also have faith  in Watkins that when these mandated energy standards go into effect, Caldera will pass with flying colors.

I am sorry these questions seem tough. I sell hottubs, but I am also a citizen. It was earth day yesterday and the price of oil hit $119 a barrel.

I am concerned.

[Summitman]

"I am sure there are volumes of testing data and research information locked snuggly in the vaults of Watkins Mfg in southern Calif. I have no doubt that there is no other spa manufacturer out there that does as much R/D on a product as Watkins"

Thats a pretty bold statement!  Have you ever toured another manufacturers plant.  Do you know everything about Arctics line?  How do you know that they dont do MORE R&D development.  Thats one the best features about the Arctic imo, that they spend lots of time and money on R&D.  Such benefits from this research would be the Onzene system, fiberglass floor, castcore cover, and the style of pumps they use.  Before we make claims that one does more research than the other we may want to back that up with facts.  I have no idea what Watkins spends on the R&D side just like you have no idea how much Arctic spends on their end.

[Swell-Tub]

The tone of this thread is too tense for me I better go relax in my hot tub. Dang I don't have one yet.......

[hottubdan]

James; can I ask why you have this intense curiosity on Arctic specifically? As a Caldera dealer, is this for ammunition to sell against them?  :-? Can I ask what studies are available to US from Caldera to show a comparison in efficiency?

Arctic seems to be one of the few manufacturers that has done outside testing on their spas (info has been available to the general public for years) and has gone through the expense of building a low-temperature test chamber at the plant.

With all due respect to Arctic and yourself, most any major brand has very similar operating costs within a few $ a month of each other. Really a moot point... :-/

And for the record, EVERY manufacturer claims superior energy efficiency... nothing new there...

The CEC regs call for self testing, not third party.  As far as I know only Hot Spring (not all Watkins) and Arctic have had 3rd party testing.  From what I understand, if 3rd party testing was done across the industry, many, if not most, spas would not pass, including several brands touted here.  The testing is based on "stand by" mode and if a spa's low speed pump and heater are going during this period, it will be difficult to pass.  The standards only will be meaningful when consumers buy tubs that have been certified and they get their surprise.

I know James has sold HS before and understands the testing that was done.  I think he is trying to understand what Arctic has done.

Yes, Steve, every manufacturer [glow]claims[/glow] superior energy efficiency.  Only Watkins/Hot Spring and Arctic have tested.  Study their tests.  Draw your own conclusions.  Consider why no one else has published any 3rd party testing.

[Water Boy]

Hottubdan,

Could you put a link to the third party test that Watkins had done on the HS line. I would like to see it if it is public information?

[hottubdan]

This link is the results.  It is not a PDF of the report that Arctic has available.  It is more like the article in the journal.

http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/energy_testing.html

[Water Boy]

Thanks Dan. I have seen that on their website but I didn't know if you were talking about a different study or not.  Is there an article that was done in some journal. Is there a link to the article??

[hottubdan]

Thanks Dan. I have seen that on their website but I didn't know if you were talking about a different study or not.  Is there an article that was done in some journal. Is there a link to the article??

That's the study.  That's the link.  That is all I know.

[soak-king]

So.....Will James get an answer to his question?  :-?
Seems it was kinda glossed over.   :-/

[Summitman]

So.....Will James get an answer to his question?  :-?
Seems it was kinda glossed over.   :-/

It will have to be Tom that answers that question, or someone in the know.  That is if its a question that can be answered

[Dipstick]

I also have faith  in Watkins that when these mandated energy standards go into effect, Caldera will pass with flying colors.

Not one spa manufacturer that build a spa over 160 gallons can past the current CEC standard (not even close), the parameters set by CEC are a joke that is why is has still not gone in to affect. Several manufactures are in talks with the make real life standard.

[Merlin]

Not one spa manufacturer that build a spa over 160 gallons can past the current CEC standard (not even close), the parameters set by CEC are a joke that is why is has still not gone in to affect. Several manufactures are in talks with the make real life standard.

its not a joke the other manufacture just dont want to take the time or the money or the effort for that matter to meet the standards.