Jacuzzi 100% no by-pass filtration???

[Mendocino101]

Well done, Mendo...best post in this thread by a long shot.

quote]

Wow words I would not think I would hear but Thank you...I agree with you....Just about any spa on the market today will work for filtering sure some will do a better job and do offer some advantages but if you neglect the water management of your spa forget it none will save you...As you said find the spa you like best. What I would stay away from putting any real weight on is things like waterfalls, lights, stereos. Those things I think wind mattering less to folks once in the yard than they seem to do on the showroom floor.

[Tailhooker]

On my way out the door - time for a quick post.

As Term said, HS strives for integrity in all of its dealers. As any company with 800 plus dealers will tell you, not all live up to the expectations. We are required by contract to service what we sell. Beyond that, I could sell anywhere in the world. I can't market outside of my territory, but I can sell. That's why I don't market via Internet or other means which go outside the area I want to drive my service trucks.

What happened to you does sound bad to me, and I would only say that it is rare from a Watkins dealer. I have dealers near me, and if they offer a lowball price, I have to choose to honor it and eat the difference, or let them have the deal. But I sure don't call the distant dealer and close down anything in the works. We call that "free market" around here...

So, get the best price you can. But get it in writing, and don't waste their time - if you like the price, write the check. Let them know in clear, polite terms that you like the  product and want to buy it at the lowest price you can. Having a pen in one hand and a check in the other is always the very best negotiating tool, and you might be surprised to find the dealer will offer a matching price, or even include travel charges.

Before you write the check, be sure to get a written estimate of the costs of a service call. 80 miles is a 'far piece and it would be fair to pay travel time. You will not have many service calls on a HS tub, but be aware that if you are outside of the normal service area ANY tub maker can and might charge travel time to get to you even on a warranty item.

Then figure in all those variables and go with what you like.

I have worked with Watkins Manufacturing for over 21 years. I have been invited to share my personal testimony on more than one occasion to dealer meetings, Top Gun sales training and other factory-sponsored events. I think you will find them one of the 'good' guys in this business. Not perfect, but they sure are trying to be.

 8-)

Good info, asking for the written estimate, I try to be up front telling the salesmen/women that I am just looking at the moment and so far they haven't been pushy, maybe after I start wet testing their spas they might get a more pushy knowing that I am a serious buyer.  By-pass no by-pass... keep the filters clean and test your water and everything should be fine.  Now the next important question is how many hot tubs with 100% by-pass have a plastic BASE!!!

[wewannahottub]

I find the insinuation that Watkins would engage in price fixing in any form to be personally offensive.  A company does not remain atop an industry for over 20 years by engaging in fraudulent practices.  There are plenty of sleazeball spa companies operating in North America, and Watkins is as diametrically opposed to these lowlifes as you can get.



Chris O signing off...   

Termie.  

I don't think Saved by Grace was dissin' on Watkins.  ONLY THE DEALERS he and his wife are dealing with. That would be the shameful part there.  You gotta admit, just because you are honest and reputable, doesn't mean ALL Watkins (or any other brand dealer) are.  And that is a gol' darn shame.

Stickin' up for us little guys.

WWHT

[Saved by Grace]

Funny how these things work.  It was Spiderman who started this string and it does end up that he was referring to us.  I want to make it perfectly clear to all that are reading this post.

Spiderman has been great while dealing with us.  Do I think they made a mistake by calling the other dealer? Yes.  However, they have been nothing but completely honest with us.  I will have absolutely no hesitation of buying from them if we decide on Hot Springs.  I have no doubt they would service us like family because that is just how they treated us from day one....  They have opened the store to us on a saturday eveing to wet test and been willing to offer to do it again if we need to.

I hope I've been clear.

Thanks All,
Fred

[wewannahottub]

East Tex Spa,

Thank you for your reply.  We have only been exposed to the Hot Tub industry for the last couple of weeks and are still learning the industry.  So that I'm clear on a couple of things.  First, I didn't mean to insult a long standing company like HS.  I was simply expaining what happened to us and to me, locally at least, it was close to price fixing.  We had visited a dealer and he followed up twice and spoke with my wife.  He wanted to know what it would take (price wise) to get our business.  She told him he would have to speak to me.  The third time he called he reached me.  His tone changed completely and he said they wouldn't be able to service us.  I told my wife I'll bet the local dealer called them....sure enough we talked to our local dealer and she told us they spoke to them and that was the end of ANY price negotiating power I had.  Call whatever happened whatever you want....

Secondly, As far as this being a free country, it still is.  Again I'm trying to understand the industry.  Is it an industry standard that any dealer of any brand can refuse to service a product?  If so, then it really isn't a company warranty, but a dealership warranty.  I'm in the powersports business and if we refused to service a unit we would lose our dealership.  In this free country they would back up the truck and take our product away from us.  So my question is, is the warranty that comes with a Hot Springs tub a company warranty that is supported by their entire network of dealers, or is it a dealership warranty that all non-selling dealers are not allowed to or can refuse to service their tubs?  And if so is this what I'll find all accross the industry?  Knowing the answer to this question will really help us make our decision.

East Tex Spa.  You sound like a man I would love to do business with.  You sound like a no-nonsense straight shooter and I wish your store was close by.  After two weeks of spa research our heads are spinning and we just want to be sure our $8K to $11k expenditure is based on solid and truthful information.  Thanks again for your reply.

Parrothead, Thanks for the input.  Makes sense that the HS could lose some power as the filters get dirty because there is no by pass.  The jets in the ones we wet tested sure had plenty of power at the time.  Last night I read through "Beating a Dead Dog" string and came to the conclusion that we aren't going to put much weight on the HS 100% by pass.  I believe the Jucuzzi can keep the water just as clean.

Thanks all,
Fred

Fred and nurse-wife ,

Keep a clear and realistic view of the dealers.  I have learned to not be pressured.  It's easy to fall prey.  Maybe if you tell the HS dealers that you are still looking at other BRANDS--which would be just as, if not more competetive.  I would think ANY dealer/buyer/rep on this forum would AGREE it is YOUR $$$ NOT theirs.  I am going to be upfront with ANY dealer and tell them that their brand is not the only one I am interested in.  What it will come down to, is what the final cost will be, how the dealer handles my business, as well as how will they service and deliver it.  I feel you and your wife will know what is right, and it sounds like these 2 dealers are giving you red flags.  Go with your gut instinct.

Good Luck.  We are going to wet test some D1's today!!! 8-)

WWHT

[wewannahottub]

Funny how these things work.  It was Spiderman who started this string and it does end up that he was referring to us.  I want to make it perfectly clear to all that are reading this post.

Spiderman has been great while dealing with us.  Do I think they made a mistake by calling the other dealer? Yes.  However, they have been nothing but completely honest with us.  I will have absolutely no hesitation of buying from them if we decide on Hot Springs.  I have no doubt they would service us like family because that is just how they treated us from day one....  They have opened the store to us on a saturday eveing to wet test and been willing to offer to do it again if we need to.

I hope I've been clear.

Thanks All,
Fred

Ok, All Clear Now!!  I get inscensed (sp?) if I think someone is getting the run around.

Fred, if SPiderman is giving you good service, good.  And good luck.  I am sure if Spidey is on this forum, he is knowledgable and sees both ends of the spectrum.

Spidey--sorry if I sounded like I was dissin' on ya  lol

WWHT

[Spiderman]

Thanks for response Fred, we really appreciate it.  I'd like to add some info as well for the rest of you fine folks.  The only call we made was to our Regional Sales Manager becuase we were told that the salesman at the other HS store 80 miles away told Fred and his wife that they could sell them the tub and then WE would service it for them.  That's news to me!  I knew per our dealer agreement with Watkins that this wasn't true and it was a down right lie so I called our RSM to verify.  Promising or saying things to potential customers which aren't true and using our name in the equation gets me a little upset.  I'm sure other dealers would feel the same way.   It's possible our RSM called the other store to address the service issue, but I don't know that for sure.  All I know is that we've done all can to help Fred and his wife in any way possible, including telling them to take their time with their spa shopping and purchase so they don't buy a tub that isn't for them; even if that means them buying a different brand from someone else.  Let's face it, anyone who spends as much money as customers do on a hot tub purchase had better make sure its the right tub.  If someone has a bad experience with their hot tub, it's not good for anyone in the hot tub business.    

[wewannahottub]

Thanks for response Fred, we really appreciate it.  I'd like to add some info as well for the rest of you fine folks.  The only call we made was to our Regional Sales Manager becuase we were told that the salesman at the other HS store 80 miles away told Fred and his wife that they could sell them the tub and then WE would service it for them.  That's news to me!  I knew per our dealer agreement with Watkins that this wasn't true and it was a down right lie so I called our RSM to verify.  Promising or saying things to potential customers which aren't true and using our name in the equation gets me a little upset.  I'm sure other dealers would feel the same way.   It's possible our RSM called the other store to address the service issue, but I don't know that for sure.  All I know is that we've done all can to help Fred and his wife in any way possible, including telling them to take their time with their spa shopping and purchase so they don't buy a tub that isn't for them; even if that means them buying a different brand from someone else.  Let's face it, anyone who spends as much money as customers do on a hot tub purchase had better make sure its the right tub.  If someone has a bad experience with their hot tub, it's not good for anyone in the hot tub business.    

good to see both sides of the fence.  

[Chas]

Now that sounds more like it. I am glad we got that aired out -

Thanks.

 8-)

[IL Parrothead]

Kumbaya, my Lord.....Kumbaya..........

[Saved by Grace]

I'm glad this is cleared up.  However, I still would like to know if Hot Springs is the only one that is really a dealership warranty backed by the manufacturer or if this is the industry standard.  I'm really having a hard time with "we'll service who we want" or "we can't service it if we didn't sell it".  That scares me a bit...anyone else?  Also, if I sell it to someone else the warranty voids, that is very interesting to me also.

Thanks,
Fred

[hottubdan]

I'm glad this is cleared up.  However, I still would like to know if Hot Springs is the only one that is really a dealership warranty backed by the manufacturer or if this is the industry standard.  I'm really having a hard time with "we'll service who we want" or "we can't service it if we didn't sell it".  That scares me a bit...anyone else?  Also, if I sell it to someone else the warranty voids, that is very interesting to me also.

Thanks,
Fred

Fred,

It is pretty much an industry standard that the selling dealer is responsible for seeing that what they sell is serviced.  I picked my words carefully.  The dealer does not have to service it; they just have to make sure someone does.

There are several reasons for this.  We like to think we are establishing relationships with our customers.  Perhaps the major difference between what we do and the power sport or automobile industries are that owners bring their vehicles to the service center rather than the serviceman going to your house.  

The spa industry is in its infancy.  Watkins Mfg. is 31 years old; not the oldest but one of the oldest in the industry.  As you have learned here if you have been reading several threads, there are many snaky dealers, who would be tempted to sell anywhere, it they did not have to service what they sell.  In our industry, we have learned you get much better customer service if you can deal with the people who sold you your spa.

Buy the way, I have met Spiderman at a dealer conference in CA.  Those who spend their own money to continue to get educated are industry leaders.  I am sure he will take care of you.

Dan

[Saved by Grace]

Thanks for the reply Dan.

This type of warranty is foreign to me.  On the surface it seems quite a conveint manner to hold prices pretty firm.  What is the reason a warranty doesn't transfer ownership?

Also, I have no doubt Spiderman would do much to make our hot tub owership as pleasant as possible.  They've already done more to help us learn about them then anyone else.

Thanks again,
Fred

[wewannahottub]

Hey, dealers, speaking of servicing olny spas you sold, what happens if a customer moves far away and takes/brings their spa with them??  Then what??  

Just curious

WWHT

[Chris_H]

I think it is pretty safe to say that the policy is on a case by case basis.