Jacuzzi 100% no by-pass filtration???

[wewannahottub]

By the Way Saved By Grace--these guys will get you laughing.  SOmewhere in all the BS out comes some sort of truth.  One thing is---they are all passionate about their products.

Good Luck.

another spa searcher...and keeping my eye on the prize--


Chris
WWHT 8-)

[Chas]

Hey! Saved by Grace! Me too!

As to the question - as far as I know, HotSpring is the only one with no-bypass filtration and no lower suction fittings. Marquis has a version of it in which the lower suctions were in fact plumbed into the filter housing so that all water did get filtered before going on to pumps. I don't know if they still do this, but it is/was a good system.

Other than Marquis, it is easy - if you see lower suction fittings, you have a bypass arrangement going on. Also - if you have one filter, or one filter per pump, you have bypass - again, except for Marquis.

They all work, but the no-bypass filtration on a HotSpring will do in about ten minutes what a bypass spa can take up to two hours to do. The reason I say "up to" two hours is because the amount of bypass is very much dependent upon the condition of the filter(s). When they are new and clean, lots of water will go through them and the system will work well. As they get dirty, and as they age, they will offer up more resistance to the flow of water, and so more water will be drawn into the lower suction fittings. That means that you will be filtering much less and bypassing much more.

I am an expert on this because our Tiger River, Solana, HotSpot, Caldera and Limelight spas all have bypass arrangements.

Marquis changed their web site, so I can't post the link to the picture I used to use - but I don't know if they are still doing things that way or not. I do know that they put two-speed pumps on the jet system, and they run one of them on low speed to filter - that moves more water than the small circ pump. So if they are bypassing, they are making up for it in volume of water moved. You decide if one is better...


In closing.... let me say that some makers teach their sales team to say, "we filter 100% of the water."

But that doesn't mean that all the water entering the plumbing has gone through a filter. What they may be saying is that if the tub holds 350 gallons, it will filter an amount equal to 350 gallons in a given amount of time, usually one day or one filter cycle. That is an attempt to make it sound equal to HotSpring, which I find quite flattering, but not all that clear.

 8-)

[Jacuzzi Jim]

So how does one find out the TRUTH of this question???  And how is something "really close to full bypass but not quite"?  I wonder if I could obtain a schematic of the tub and then follow the tubbing on the lower suction intacts and see if they flow through a filter before reaching the pump.

We're leaning towards writing the tubs down and drawing them out of a hat.....

Thanks,
Fred

   The filtration works like this on the J-375 pump 1 draws though one of the filters, it has a by-pass suction which it will draw from in case the filter is obstructed. The other filter is dedicated to the circ pump. Pump 2 draws solely from the suction in the foot well.  So no, its not 100% no by pass filtration but it does do a really really good job.  But if thats the only reason you are buying a spa for then the Hot springs would be the ticket.

 On the 400 series it has a high flo circ pump similar to a main pump, it draws through that floaty skimmer thing close to 60,000 gallons a day, no by pass suction, filter only.   Now it varies on models but pump 1 for example will draw though whats called the polishing bag, from a suction on the floor btm of the spa, it will filter about 10lbs of sand if that much were to get in there, something a Hot springs cannot do, its a feature I really like, because spas always get grit and sand in them. now pump 2 draws from the std suctions in the btm like the 375.  The reason for me its close to no bypass is it turns a tremendous amount of water over in a day, no its not complete no by-pass but it again does a really really good job.   I would rally Jacuzzi, Sundance, Marquis and yes even the arctic spa up against the no by-pass filtraton of the Hot springs any day.

 All are really good choices! Don't let one guys filtration system sway you to buy the spa  because of it, their are to many things besides filtration.  Comfort,price and of course the dealer. You can have the best spa in the world (Jacuzzi ) but if the dealers not gonna take care of you it doesn't matter!


 Ok I am gone for the weekend.   I have left the building YALL have a good weekend!!  Goarctic I do mean you as well!!  

[Mendocino101]

 Are we not splitting hairs. I mean if you have 100% no by pass or if you filter 100% of the water over and over during the day? Can anyone really make the claim that one is significantly better. What is over looked is water sanitation if your spa water is not balanced and and does not have a safe amount of sanitizer in it than the filtering will not matter with no regard to whose brand it is.

[Gomboman]

Fred, are you shopping at Spiderman's store? I think your Jacuzzi dealer is not being very honest with you. Why don't you give him the link to this post and maybe he can explain himself. I hope this doesn't go to the Dead Horse section. Good luck with your search........

[Spatech_tuo]

Fred, are you shopping at Spiderman's store? I think your Jacuzzi dealer is not being very honest with you. Why don't you give him the link to this post and maybe he can explain himself. I hope this doesn't go to the Dead Horse section. Good luck with your search........

It could also be that he just doesn't know he's not being accurate. The first thing a new spa salesman does is to try to act like he knows what he talking about. The good ones turn it around quickly and eventually become knowledgeable. I remember one new sales lady in particular who was great at sounding like she knew what she was talking about. I marveled at her confidence in sounding informed when she knew she was half winging it. That works with many customers who aren't up to speed but the informed ones smell it out. I would council her after her presentation on what she was missing and she eventually went from sounding like she knew what she was saying to actually knowing and became a very good sales person.

[Saved by Grace]

Thanks all for your imput.

wewannahottub I take it from your little nurse looking icon that you are in fact a nurse.  So is my wife.  Go luck to you in your search for that prize.  We are very excited to get one in our back yard...in place of the snow that is still out there.  Time is on our side in our search because not only does the rest of snow have to melt, I also have to add onto our deck to put our tub on.  Thanks for the encouraging words.

Chas, thanks for the info.  I take it from your post that you are a believer and a Hot Springs dealer.  I appreciate your time in responding to my post.  I'm a little concerned about we've discovered to be HS policy of not doing business with a customer if there is a closer/local dealer.  What I mean is this..we stopped at the local HS dealer and then traveled approx. 80 miles to another dealer.  At this further dealer we wet tested a Vista and an Aria.  We then dry sat in a Grandee which we liked alot.  He gave us a price and said they would sell it to us and the local dealer would be able to service us.  We ended up back at our local dealer and wet test an Envoy.  During our conversation we told her about our other visit 80 miles away.

To make a long story short she told us that she wouldn't be able to service us that the selling dealer has to be the one to service the customer.  On top of that she called the other dealer and put the kibosh on me getting the best price from them so I would have something to compare deals with.  Almost seemed like price fixing.  Now I have no idea if the price she is qouting me is even decent...which is all I was really looking for; a decent price.  I'm a little put off by that whole experience.

Jacuzzi Jim.  Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me.  It makes alot of sense.  We really like the 480 and the idea of sand getting sucked out of the bottom makes a lot of sense.  We are going to wet test the 480 one more time.  I want to make sure that the foot pedestal doesn't get in my way for stretching out.  My wife absolutely loved the lounge and the jets in the lounge.  I must admit there is nothing even close to those jets that we have come accross yet.  WOW they are awsome...but come with a cost.

As far as splitting hairs; perhaps I am.  However, the Jacuzzi salesman was clear about exactly what I was asking him.  So, one of three things is going on.  1)  Jacuzzi Jim doesn't know what he's talking about.  He sure seems to.  2) The salesman didn't know what he was talking about. Or 3)  The salesman lied to us.  I HATE being lied to.  
So when we go back to the dealer, I will straighten this out or I won't buy from them.

In His Peace,
Fred

[wewannahottub]

Thanks all for your imput.

wewannahottub I take it from your little nurse looking icon that you are in fact a nurse.  So is my wife.  Go luck to you in your search for that prize.  We are very excited to get one in our back yard...in place of the snow that is still out there.  Time is on our side in our search because not only does the rest of snow have to melt, I also have to add onto our deck to put our tub on.  Thanks for the encouraging words.

.

In His Peace,
Fred

SBG--I am a nurse--local community hospital ICU.  LIke the dealers on this post (and, sometimes I am tempted to call it Hot Spring Forum---my bad---) I am passionate about my job.  And, for the dealers out there bs'ng to their customers, SHAME---

If one of my patients' families had questions that I couldn't answer, I tell them I don't quite nknow the answer.  (You know, b'cause the docs try to avoid the families!!  my bad again)  and beside that, the nurse is with the patient 8 or 12 hours a day.

Anyhoo--I am ready for the tub, since we decided not to re-do the deck we originally wanted it on, saving us some time and $$$, and put it on the concrete-based porch/deck.  Now if the dealers were ready----or close by....

Continued well wishing in your spa search--but it sounds like someone is going to try to shank you.

BTW--dealers out there---WHy is it you can buy a Dodge (or any car)and take it to another dealer for service, but not a hot tub???

Could this have started another post??? :-?

Hooboy.  

WWHT

[Saved by Grace]

WWHT

Which tub are buying?  And why?

Thanks,
Fred

[wewannahottub]

WWHT

Which tub are buying?  And why?

Thanks,
Fred

So far, we kn't have a clue.  We have only wet-tested a Clearwater, and I have been in my friends new  Arctic Kodiak LE, dry tested D1 Amore (but now we are re-visiting Lotus Bay) Dynasty Caspian 55 (we are waiting for the dealer to get a new tub to wet test,as well, they sell Arctic--I want a Tundra), we have dry sat in Cal Spas--again, not too many recommendations on this forum.  SUndance didn't fit my hubby, and we didn't want to wet test the Maxxus.  Hubby wants to see an Artesian, but can't find any within a 100 mile radius-and I think service would be an issue, then.  

So, he and I have gone back and forth for weeks now, and still not a clue!  I know the HS guys here really want me to check a Grandee, but it just doesnt make me googly eyed.  

I am hoping we have our epiphany day soon--when we find the perfect spa at a perfect price with the perfect options from the perfect dealer.  I know, my sights are set high.

Still on the list
1 Arctic Tundra
2 Jacuzzi J470
3 Dimension 1 Lotus Bay
4 Dynasty Caspian 55 or TItan 5000
5 Artesian, if my hubby can convince me to drive far for a dealer and have service charges out the wazzooooo....
but he's cute and I love him and he makes me googly eyed...heehee

(i know--I am cheesy)

Chrisi

[East_TX_Spa]

I find the insinuation that Watkins would engage in price fixing in any form to be personally offensive.  A company does not remain atop an industry for over 20 years by engaging in fraudulent practices.  There are plenty of sleazeball spa companies operating in North America, and Watkins is as diametrically opposed to these lowlifes as you can get.

In regards to the local HS dealer not wanting to service a spa he didn't sell, he has every right to do so.  By the same token, the customer is free to buy a spa from whomever he wants.  It is still a free country, somewhat.

Over the years, I've read posts from dealers of many different brands who have indicated that they would not service a spa their comrade-in-arms sold.  Some of these major spa companies (it has been stated) have very defined and strict boundaries.  Just yesterday, a prominent forum member alluded to the fact that if someone bought a "name brand spa" off the internet, they would probably have a tough time getting the local dealer to service it.

Our little company down here in Texas only services what we sell.  We don't sell spas to people that we can not reliably service and we take exception to dealers that don't take care of their customers.  ANYBODY WILL SELL YOU A SPA and they will promise you the moon and the stars and lay it on thick about the service after the sale they're gonna give you.  It's ironic how many of those slicksters are long gone and we're still here and thriving.

It has been our policy for 23 years and it has served us well.  More importantly, OUR CUSTOMERS dearly appreciate the fact that we adhere to certain principles and standards which are evidently sorely lacking nowadays.  If it upsets someone on occasion and we lose a sale because of it....well that's just the price of keeping one's integrity.  And we can live with that.



Ya'll have fun with one another.  I've got a full schedule ahead of me for a good long stretch and my attention needs to be focused there.  I've enjoyed conversing with all of you tremendously, but real life beckons and it's time to move on down the road.

If anyone needs me, give me a holler.  Take care!

Chris O signing off...   

[IL Parrothead]

Fred,
I am guessing that your jacuzzi salesman is engaged in what spatech tuo was talking about.  There are, unfortunately, quite a few salesman out there that knew less about their product than I did when I walked into their showroom during my search.  And there were a whole BUNCH that knew very little about the competition.  Most of them would indicate that their spa was the only one to have feature X, until I would tell them of the 2 or 3 other makes that had the same thing.  After I had pretty much made my mind up on what spa to buy, I walked into a store near my office.  They sell Baja.  That guy answered 5 or 6 questions about his own product with answers I later found (on the Baja website) out to be incorrect.  I mean, simple stuff like full-foam or thermal pane insulation!!!
Jacuzzi Jim and Chas sum up the filtration issue pretty well.  One other thing I'll add, is that some people claim (and I'll leave it for the gurus to argue whether it's true) that the HS system can result in less pressure at the jets if their filters are not maintained properly -- because there is no bypass like on other spas in the event the filters get clogged.  I have wet tested HS (I'm assuming with nicely maintained filters), and enjoyed the jets.  Just thought I'd raise the last bullet point on the bypass filtration that I've heard in the past.
All in all, stick with the good name brands (and you've heard most of them in this thread).  They all do a great job providing clean water, albeit with different methods.

[Saved by Grace]

East Tex Spa,

Thank you for your reply.  We have only been exposed to the Hot Tub industry for the last couple of weeks and are still learning the industry.  So that I'm clear on a couple of things.  First, I didn't mean to insult a long standing company like HS.  I was simply expaining what happened to us and to me, locally at least, it was close to price fixing.  We had visited a dealer and he followed up twice and spoke with my wife.  He wanted to know what it would take (price wise) to get our business.  She told him he would have to speak to me.  The third time he called he reached me.  His tone changed completely and he said they wouldn't be able to service us.  I told my wife I'll bet the local dealer called them....sure enough we talked to our local dealer and she told us they spoke to them and that was the end of ANY price negotiating power I had.  Call whatever happened whatever you want....

Secondly, As far as this being a free country, it still is.  Again I'm trying to understand the industry.  Is it an industry standard that any dealer of any brand can refuse to service a product?  If so, then it really isn't a company warranty, but a dealership warranty.  I'm in the powersports business and if we refused to service a unit we would lose our dealership.  In this free country they would back up the truck and take our product away from us.  So my question is, is the warranty that comes with a Hot Springs tub a company warranty that is supported by their entire network of dealers, or is it a dealership warranty that all non-selling dealers are not allowed to or can refuse to service their tubs?  And if so is this what I'll find all accross the industry?  Knowing the answer to this question will really help us make our decision.

East Tex Spa.  You sound like a man I would love to do business with.  You sound like a no-nonsense straight shooter and I wish your store was close by.  After two weeks of spa research our heads are spinning and we just want to be sure our $8K to $11k expenditure is based on solid and truthful information.  Thanks again for your reply.

Parrothead, Thanks for the input.  Makes sense that the HS could lose some power as the filters get dirty because there is no by pass.  The jets in the ones we wet tested sure had plenty of power at the time.  Last night I read through "Beating a Dead Dog" string and came to the conclusion that we aren't going to put much weight on the HS 100% by pass.  I believe the Jucuzzi can keep the water just as clean.

Thanks all,
Fred

[Saved by Grace]

Still on the list
1 Arctic Tundra
2 Jacuzzi J470
3 Dimension 1 Lotus Bay
4 Dynasty Caspian 55 or TItan 5000
5 Artesian, if my hubby can convince me to drive far for a dealer and have service charges out the wazzooooo....
but he's cute and I love him and he makes me googly eyed...heehee

(i know--I am cheesy)

Chrisi

The only one on your list we have experience with is the Jacuzzi J470.  We wet tested the J480.  The 480 has a lounge and the 470 doesn't.  We love the 480 and my wife absolutely loves the lounge.  It has Jacuzzi jets call PowerPro FX2.  They are the best jets we have experienced to date.  There are six in the lounge.  On the 470 they are in one of the corner seats but drop down to a cluster of 5 instead of six.

We would buy the 480 but when we wet tested it we were in and out kind of fast.  My concern is that after the wet test we dry sat in another Jacuzzi that had the sme foot pedestal and it seemed to be in my way for streching out.  I didn't notice it while in the 480 wet so maybe with water in it, it wouldn't be an issue.  But now I'm concerned....so we'll just have to wet test it again.  Another thing is it is the most expensive one were considering at this time.

Have a great Sunday,
Fred
Good luck

[windsurfdog]

Are we not splitting hairs. I mean if you have 100% no by pass or if you filter 100% of the water over and over during the day? Can anyone really make the claim that one is significantly better. What is over looked is water sanitation if your spa water is not balanced and and does not have a safe amount of sanitizer in it than the filtering will not matter with no regard to whose brand it is.

Well done, Mendo...best post in this thread by a long shot.

Fred, forget all the talk and cute drawings re: hot tub sanitation methods.  If you buy any tub from a major manufacturer, you will get a quality sanitation system...all the rest is just marketing.  Do yourself a favor and concentrate on the therapy provided by the tub and the confidence you would have in the dealer from whom you will purchase...and leave all the marketing to the retailers. 8-)