in a quandary...

[thearm]

Micah,
Here's my problem. Who is making money and who is spending money here. What if after the order was placed the couple lost their jobs and could not afford to pay for the product what would be your thoughts? Here we have a medical situation and the tub and gazebo were never manufactured and the buyer is letting them keep $2500 profit for what? If you are in business and deal with customers then CUSTOMER SERVICE is the key to increased business. I told my employees to always take care of the customers, even if it cost me some money because they are the reason we are here. Customers are why we are here, not to sell hot tubs or gazebos. If the mighty dollar is why you do business then find another line of work. Serving people is why you do a business and if you protect your number one asset (customers) and number two asset (employees) the money will follow. Now I know you think I'm a little Polyanna about this but my life has been about customer service and I find what I just said to be the truth. Who is served by making the customer pay for something they can"t use. Now I might feel different if this was a special order or the products were manufactured and couldn't be resold or returned. OK let me step down from my soapbox now. Sorry Micah if I came on strong but this generation seems to have forgotten what it was like to sell customer service and not a product...

Scott  :-?

Scott,
I have to agree with Micah on this one. A contract is between two people and both should have to honor it. Everyone hammers the dealers on here for not doing something that was perceived or promised for the customer. In this case the customer has kept the dealer waiting for over a year and now wants to cancel. Why shouldn't the dealer have the right to ship the tub? I'll bet if the shoe was on the other foot, everybody would be condeming the dealer. It's far to easy today to blame everyone else for your bad decisions. I know of several people with hypertension who use hot tubs. As for the chemical allergies, there are several alternatives to be used in a spa. Bottom line you signed a contract and should honor that.

[wewannahottub]

has glfahlc stated yet what was in the contract about deposits and cancellations??

I'd be interested.... :-?

[hottubdan]

Scott,
I have to agree with Micah on this one. A contract is between two people and both should have to honor it. Everyone hammers the dealers on here for not doing something that was perceived or promised for the customer. In this case the customer has kept the dealer waiting for over a year and now wants to cancel. Why shouldn't the dealer have the right to ship the tub? I'll bet if the shoe was on the other foot, everybody would be condeming the dealer. It's far to easy today to blame everyone else for your bad decisions. I know of several people with hypertension who use hot tubs. As for the chemical allergies, there are several alternatives to be used in a spa. Bottom line you signed a contract and should honor that.

Here are a few more questions:

1)  Is there a dealer involved or just the manufacturer?  It was a Master Show.
2)  Has the spa been built and shipped somewhere?  I will bet not.
3)  If there is a dealer and no spa has been built and shipped, then where is the damage?  Customer is willing to give up $2500 deposit and get nothing in return.
4)  As a test, I would bet if the customer demanded immediate delivery, it could not happen because product still has to be built.

Sure a contract is a contract.  And there are always ways out.  Unfortunately, when push comes to shove, that is what the legal system is for.

Either party could sue.  Then they would both lose!

[Spatech_tuo]

If the owner does not live up to their end of the bargain they are subject to forfeiture of their deposit. How does it go beyond that?

[Swell-Tub]

So what has the dealer done to deserve the business?
Nothing has been manufacturered or delivered. He wrote a contract and is going to get $2500 for his pensmanship. Give me a break if Master Spa's plant caught on fire they would be walking away from the contract. If they had suffered financial loss because a tub was built for this customer then I might sing another tune, but they in no way deserve the business because a contract is a contract.

I wrote a contract on a new car a few weeks ago. The dealer let me know that the contract was not valid until I drove the car over the dealerships curb. In other words I could cancel my purchase right up until I drove away the product I purchased and took posession of. I gave them a $10K deposit on the car and I was told it was fully refundable until I drove it over the curb.

OK, I have driven my point of view into the ground here, I'm going to do my best to let it drop.

Scott  

[Swell-Tub]

If the owner does not live up to their end of the bargain they are subject to forfeiture of their deposit. How does it go beyond that?

Perfect.......

[glfahlc]

has glfahlc stated yet what was in the contract about deposits and cancellations??

I'd be interested.... :-?

i'm just going from memory here but i'm sure the contract said in the tiniest of print that if you did not take delivery within a year then you would forfiet the deposit... this  master dealer out of lancaster, pa. is trying to see if he can force me into taking a spa against my wishes. no the tub hasn't been made nor has the gazebo.... who loses out here? i would think me and i'm willing to do that. why would anyone dispute that.

[glfahlc]

i also appreciate the running diatribe on ethics we have going here, but who's being unethical... me for giving this dealer 2500.00 of our hard earned money or the dealer for trying to force to buy his product that we no longer want...

[Water Boy]

Sometimes you just have to do the right thing. It isn’t like the customer is backing out to go buy a different spa. He has legtiment reasons to cancel his order, and the dealer should be understanding of it.

We had a similar situation a few months back where a customer had put 3k down on a spa, and came in 6 months later and told me that the engine in his truck blew up, and their foundation settled in their house and had to put in another 6k in there house. He asked nicely for a refund of his deposit to help cover the other expenses. It was a no brainer to me, and we wrote him a check right there. I just felt that it is the right thing to do, and in this situation, I feel that the customer is entitled to there money as well, imo.

[Swell-Tub]

Sometimes you just have to do the right thing. It isn’t like the customer is backing out to go buy a different spa. He has legtiment reasons to cancel his order, and the dealer should be understanding of it.

We had a similar situation a few months back where a customer had put 3k down on a spa, and came in 6 months later and told me that the engine in his truck blew up, and their foundation settled in their house and had to put in another 6k in there house. He asked nicely for a refund of his deposit to help cover the other expenses. It was a no brainer to me, and we wrote him a check right there. I just felt that it is the right thing to do, and in this situation, I feel that the customer is entitled to there money as well, imo.

And that attitude will pay big dividends down the road because customers talk and your business will be known as a customer caring business who watches out for the needs of the customer and not your own pocketbook. Now here is a dealer I would like to do business with.....

Scott  

[Micah]

Sometimes you just have to do the right thing. It isn’t like the customer is backing out to go buy a different spa. He has legtiment reasons to cancel his order, and the dealer should be understanding of it.

We had a similar situation a few months back where a customer had put 3k down on a spa, and came in 6 months later and told me that the engine in his truck blew up, and their foundation settled in their house and had to put in another 6k in there house. He asked nicely for a refund of his deposit to help cover the other expenses. It was a no brainer to me, and we wrote him a check right there. I just felt that it is the right thing to do, and in this situation, I feel that the customer is entitled to there money as well, imo.

In your case I agree with you that giving the customer the money back was the "right thing to do".  The point however that the customer is "entitled to their money back" is way off base.  The customer is "entitled" to the spa and gazebo that they purchased.  They are not "entitled" to anything more.

Keep in mind that I have been known to give someone their deposit back if need be.  However it would be bad business to just say yes without trying to keep the customer.  

[Swell-Tub]

However it would be bad business to just say yes without trying to keep the customer.  

Micah I will agree with this statement and agree to disagree on the contract is a contract part of this dicussion. What any business wants is happy satisfied repeat customers. It is a lot easy to keep a satisifed customer than it is to find a new one.

Scott  

[wewannahottub]

I am going to put a spin on this, from a consumer Point of View.  I will TRY to keep it short.  

Two years ago, we purchase furniture from a business on line.  Website has all the right things--Hacker Safe, BBB online,...  Mistake on our part--we used a debit card.  At the time of the order, it stated 4-6 weeks for delivery-direct from the manufacturer--and our debit card was debited the entire $1400 within days.  ( for anyone wondering, the furniture was not available in our area--we wanted denim).  6 weeks later, no furniture or email-I contacted the customer svce dept--"Oh it is on backorder".  That after a run-around with a wrong tracking no.  Weeks (2-3) later again, when the furniture was due--still no info--I contacted the co agian.  "backordered again" was the reply.  Ok, now 2 1/2 mos and $1400 later---I cancelled the order.  And, to top it off It would take the co. AT LEAST 2 billing cycles to refund my dough.  Pi**ed me off After all--my billwas already paid w/in 5 days of ordering!!  So, 6 weeks after the cancellation, I emailed the co for a status on the refund---emails start getting returned.  Calls "disconnected".  HMMMm....so after filing complaints with BBB/State attorney General and contacting a lawyer, not to mention Daily Herald in Chicago (where the now former Direct Furniture was from), I am still out 1400!!  HERE'S THE KICKER---I DID SOME INVESTIGATING MYSELF-AND SINCE I KNEW WHO THE OWNERS WERE-BRIAN AND KERRY WEINER OF VOLO IL, --I DISCOVERED THEY PURCHASED A NEW HOUSE FOR $466,500 JUST 3 WEEKS BEFORE THE BUSINESS CLOSED.  Of course, I have supplied all of the information I could possibly have to the IL. SAG.  I want some action.

Ok, now I am hypertensive and grouchy having rehashed it all.  

PS--the company that made my furniture----get this----NEVER SHIPS DIRECTLY TO THE CONSUMER!!!  Hmmmm, can we all agree?  FRAUD!!!!!!!!



in a bad mood and gonna go clean or make dinner---or have a Mikes Hard Lemonade


Chrisi
I relinquish the soap box th the next guy.  any takers

[dax]

Off topic, but are down payments of $2500 to $3000 typical?  I had to put down $500 for the dealer to order mine.  Also I must be missing something because for people to put down so much money and not have their spas in 6 months to a year is ridiculous.

If the spa and gazebo were not yet built, why wouldn't the dealer just keep the down payment?  Especially a $2500 down payment.  You can't tell me that it costs the dealer more than that to order a spa and gazebo that weren't yet built by the manufacturer.  Seems like the dealer makes money and the buyer gets out of buying something he doesn't want.

[Merlin]

We normally ask $500 minimum or whatever the customer is comfortable with as a down payment.

The cost for a dealer to order something depends on the dealers payment terms etc.... but we order spas all the time with no money down. and 6 months without the customer getting their product is completely unacceptable.