Cal Spas VS Hot Springs

[draket]

I'm torn between the Cal SPA  Avalon and the Hot Springs Spa Sovereign.  Can anyone recommend the best between the two?  Thanks

TY

[Vanguard]

This will start a debate here, but I'll throw in my two cents.

I prefer Hot Spring over Cal Spas - by far.  Now, there are some folks on the forum that are more than happy with their Cal Spa.  I have been in the industry for well over twenty years and have seen how Cal Spa treats it warranty.  If you have a big dealer for them, your warranty is likely to be taken care of - although, Cal may not pay them for a long time.  If you have a small Cal Spa dealer, good luck in getting warranty taken care of.  

I know at least ten people who used to be Cal Spa dealers.  All ten quit because they could not handle the quality issues and not getting paid for doing warranty work.  

Having said all that, you don't know me from Adam so I could be telling big fat lies just to prop Hot Spring.  Had you asked the same question and thrown another brand such as Marquis, Sundance, Jacuzzi, D1 and others, I'd tell you to make sure whatever spa you pick is very comfortable to you and meets your needs and wants.  But, you didn't ask about those brands, you asked about Cal Spas, so I won't tell you that.


Cal Spa fans, feel free to plaster me now.  

[Chris_H]

Thought my 1,000th post should be something good.  A Cal Spa versus Hotspring question certainly fits the bill.  If the prices are comparable, the Hotspring is the way to go.  I would probably argue that the Hotspring is the way to go either way.  

On a second note, Cal Spa changed their warranty again.  In 2007, they had a lifetime warranty on their pump seals and a 5 year warranty on their cabinet.  This year there is not a mention of the pump seal and a 3 year warranty on the cabinet.  This is, at least, the 5th year in a row they have changed their warranty.  From 2006 to 2007, they added verbiage regarding their “lifetime” warranty on the heater and ozonator to state that the labor is only covered for 5 years.

[Richs100]

On a second note, Cal Spa changed their warranty again.  In 2007, they had a lifetime warranty on their pump seals and a 5 year warranty on their cabinet.  This year there is not a mention of the pump seal and a 3 year warranty on the cabinet.  This is, at least, the 5th year in a row they have changed their warranty.  From 2006 to 2007, they added verbiage regarding their “lifetime” warranty on the heater and ozonator to state that the labor is only covered for 5 years.

Wow, the constant changes in warranty coverage is a real tip-off, IMO.  A warranty is such an important document to both the customer and the company.  I can't  imagine why a company would expend the legal costs involved in modifiying their warranty coverages in each of the past five years.  They must drive their attorneys (and customers) crazy.  And it sure sounds like a weasley way to do business!

I wonder if it would be possible to tell what the biggest problems Cal Spa has had in the past five years by analysing at the areas of the warranties that have been shortened or eliminated?  Might be interesting.

[Chas]

The HotSpring offers some things I'm afraid you would miss if you chose another brand:

The MotoMassage jet is one of a kind. The new Sov has the DX version, which is a double. It is wonderful! It is the jet that started the whole moving/spinning jet thing, and I love how it covers your entire back with one jet. Now - the web site doesn't show this change yet, and if your dealer has a2007 model on display it will have the single still. Not bad, just not the new version.

The jet variety: there are small, large, and extra large jets. The small and large jets have interchangeable nozzles which can make the jet an open jet, a straight jet, or a spin jet. And all have the ability to be adjusted as to the amount of air mixed in without changing other jets in the tub. Very unique.

The tubs have an engineered system of foam insulation which is made up of layers of different density of foam. Firm where it needs to support things, soft and airy where it needs to be, and solid as a rock on the very bottom to seal the bottom of the spa.

And - this tub is backed by the largest maker of Portable Hot Tubs on the planet. I know others lead you to believe they are the biggest, but they pale in comparison. Watkins is huge, and they are part of an even larger publicly traded company.

Pump shrouds which capture the hot air from the pump motors and recycle it back into the tub for you, while quieting down the motors.

Self-priming systems, bottom drains, outside drain connections, sound system options, great non-wood siding which is on it's fifth generation, outstanding reputation in the industry....

I have to go to work now....

 8-)

[Steve]

Between Cal and anything, I'd go with the anything... even Hotspring....

[hottubdan]

I do find it interesting there are salespeople for:
Hot Spring
Sundance
Jacuzzi
Arctic
Marquis
Coleman
Bullfrog
and others who post here, but I don't think I have ever seen a post from a Cal Spa representative.  Are they not proud enough to toot their horn.

I know they have an advocate in Zep who is a Cal Spa owner.

[Vanguard]

I do find it interesting there are salespeople for:
Hot Spring
Sundance
Jacuzzi
Arctic
Marquis
Coleman
Bullfrog
and others who post here, but I don't think I have ever seen a post from a Cal Spa representative.  Are they not proud enough to toot their horn.

I know they have an advocate in Zep who is a Cal Spa owner.

Cal Spa reps don't stay around long enough.  Ever wonder why they seem to always be looking for reps?

[Zep]

draket,

I love my CalSpa.

My CalSpas dealer has been great.
I ordered some accessories from headquarters and they
were nice, helpful, and very responsive.

I am not a dealer, have not ever worked in the industry,
and do not own stock in any hot tub/spa company.

Before I purchased my CalSpa I spoke with other satisfied CalSpa customers.
CalSpa sells lots and lots and lots of tubs
CalSpa just built a huge new state of the art facility in California.

To imply most CalSpa customers are unhappy and/or are getting ripped
off is in my opinion ridiculous. Hey 2EachHisOwn.

I will say this......this message board is extremely biased against CalSpas
and in my opinion sensationalizes every little possible problem with a Cal
and greatly downplays any problem with a "board favored brand". If there
is a problem with a Cal it's "see they are junk". If there is a problem
with a "favored brand" it's "oh not to worry I think they fixed that problem"
or  "Oh I'm sure they'll take care of you". With that said even the most
biased can be very nice, helpful, and offer wonderful advice to people that
don't own the tubs they sell.

As in most cases I would suggest you check out the dealer, wet test, talk
to people that own both, not just people that sell them and make the
decision on what fits you the best.

BTW, My brother has had a Sundance for years, loves it and has never had a
problem. I hear Hot Springs is a great brand as well and there are lots of
people that sell them that frequent this board that will gladly tell you
every single thing about the Watkins brand of tubs.

Good luck.

[Pathfinder]

Its not even a fair comparison. An Avalon series tub is one step up from starter series. It should be in a comparison with say a Tiger river spa.  Now If you compared something in the Classic series to an HS tub then it maybe more comparable.  If the dealer is trying to tell you that the Avalon is a top tier top for less money just walk away.  IMO it should come down to the wet test between the 2 tubs.  The Hot Spring tub could have the best warranty in the world but if your not comfortable in it then its worthless.

[Spatech_tuo]

I do find it interesting there are salespeople for:
Hot Spring
Sundance
Jacuzzi
Arctic
Marquis
Coleman
Bullfrog
and others who post here, but I don't think I have ever seen a post from a Cal Spa representative.  Are they not proud enough to toot their horn.

I know they have an advocate in Zep who is a Cal Spa owner.

Spaman used to come here as a Cal apologist and did his best to explain away the reputation they earned. Then he switched to D1/Marquis and after selling them for a short time he seemed to understand the difference between a premium spa maker and a company that just puts parts together, creates a warranty that looks good on paper and calls themselves a top spa maker.

[Zep]

"Spaman used to come here as a Cal apologist and did his best to explain away the reputation they earned. Then he switched to D1/Marquis and after selling them for a short time he seemed to understand the difference"

So someone defended the brand they sold, and now they defend the brand they currently sell.

Yeah makes sense to me.

[Spatech_tuo]

"Spaman used to come here as a Cal apologist and did his best to explain away the reputation they earned. Then he switched to D1/Marquis and after selling them for a short time he seemed to understand the difference"

So someone defended the brand they sold, and now they defend the brand they currently sell.

Yeah makes sense to me.

Very well spun but he clearly stated that now after he sells one of his current brands he doesn't see NEARLY as many after sale issues as he saw after selling Cal. I'm only relaying what Spaman has said after selling Cal for years and then switching to a couple premium brands!

To me it makes sense, without another brand(s) to compare to there is really no way to clearly say whether the brand you work with is top notch or not. Once you see in person what else is out there you start to get a better feel for the Quality of that which you've been working with.

[Mendocino101]

draket,

I love my CalSpa.

My CalSpas dealer has been great.
I ordered some accessories from headquarters and they
were nice, helpful, and very responsive.




I will say this......this message board is extremely biased against CalSpas
and in my opinion sensationalizes every little possible problem with a Cal
and greatly downplays any problem with a "board favored brand". If there
is a problem with a Cal it's "see they are junk". If there is a problem
with a "favored brand" it's "oh not to worry I think they fixed that problem"
or  "Oh I'm sure they'll take care of you". With that said even the most
biased can be very nice, helpful, and offer wonderful advice to people that
don't own the tubs they sell.

As in most cases I would suggest you check out the dealer, wet test, talk
to people that own both, not just people that sell them and make the
decision on what fits you the best.

BTW, My brother has had a Sundance for years, loves it and has never had a
problem. I hear Hot Springs is a great brand as well and there are lots of
people that sell them that frequent this board that will gladly tell you
every single thing about the Watkins brand of tubs.

Good luck.

Zep,

I will just say this, I think it is great that you are so happy with your purchase and as such you back your maker. The issue that many who are in the industry have is that over the years Cal has earned their reputation be it what it is. I am not far from where they are made and I get to speak with many people who have had dealings with them and at best it is a very mixed bag of comments. What most give them credit  for is being a great marketing company that makes a pretty product.

[Spatech_tuo]

Zep,

I will just say this, I think it is great that you are so happy with your purchase and as such you back your maker. The issue that many who are in the industry have is that over the years Cal has earned their reputation be it what it is. I am not far from where they are made and I get to speak with many people who have had dealings with them and at best it is a very mixed bag of comments. What most give them credit  for is being a great marketing company that makes a pretty product.

Exactly, they've earned their reputation and no single spa owner who loves his spa is going to change what others think of them. No one is saying that Zep shouldn't be happy with his spa as no one has said every person who ever bought a Cal has been unhappy. Its very easy to get a poor reputation for Quality and Service and at the same time its very difficult to turn that reputation around. It'll take a LOT more Zep-like positive experiences and a lot of time for them to put that past behind them.

I hope Zep enjoys his spa for years to come but I know its a sample of one and in statistics that is just a blip on the radar screen.