Dealers- What are your Spa's 2008 Warranty?

[Summitman]

The seating is very similiar to the D1 Amore bay, with 2 huge seats and some other smaller barriered seating.  I know our dealer has Coyotes, I think they had a Renegade, but it's been a while, it could have been a Chieftain.  But, the 3 year warranty leaves that as a Tub I wouldn't want to purchase.

Still looking at the Tundra, though, and waiting to hear from my dealer.

Hoping I am not getting my hopes up too high, since it's the ""top o' the line"

Thanks--Chrisi

Im not big on the 3 year warranty either!  Thats why Im not good at selling those.

[East_TX_Spa]

The most interesting part of any warranty is ALWAYS the second page.  I ALWAYS read the second page and strongly encourage any spa shopper to do so.

Unless you're considering a HotSpring Spa.  Our warranty is only one page.  The whole thing.

Remember, reading is fundamental.

Terminator (Voracious Reader)

[wewannahottub]

I get the impression that the Arctic competitive advantage is the Forever Floor.  Frankly I don't think customers buy a spa because of the base.

IMHO--since we are looking to buy, what I am looking for, is what type of jets and PLACEMENT of the jets, not to mention other parts, such as the flooring.  WHen we first started looking, we were going to have the tub on a deck, made of wood.  SInce that would have been too much fat bank to rebuild, we decided on the porch, which has a 4-6 inch concrete base, but is covered--we really wanted to be out in the open to see the snow coming down on a cold winter's night.

In addition to seating/jet placement/therapies offered, not to mention the bling, we also have to consider the WARRANTY---and that means Limelight and Coyote would be out.  Most spas are equal in warranty excetp for the LSE, yes that comes with a price, but, as Water Boy has stated, the LSE pricing comes with things other than just a 10 year warranty.  OK, NOW???

Chrisi---still on the market for a tub..... :-/

[wewannahottub]

BTW----What I meant in a nutshell, is What is the WHOLE PACKAGE!!

Chrisi

[Jacuzzi Jim]

this is directly from the predelivery instructions for a jacuzzi spa with the ABS floor

"We recommend a poured,
reinforced concrete slab with a minimum thickness of 4 inches (10 centimeters). Wood decking
is also acceptable provided it is constructed so that it meets the requirements outlined above"


the following is directly from Arctics Forever Floor descriptions
"Already renowned for our sturdy wood floor, standard on every Arctic Spa, our engineers decided to raise the bar yet again by developing the Forever Floor®. Composed of hand-rolled fiberglass composites, this floor is impervious to moisture, pests, and time. It completely eliminates the need for foundation materials like concrete, decking, or blocks! Just set it on the ground, hook it up, fill and use...installation has never been easier and your floor will last forever in any conditions. In addition, your portable spa is now truly portable. If you move spa locations in your yard or if you move across town, the foundation comes with you."

  

 For one you are putting way to much in the base, yes base not floor of your spa, just because it says what it says in Jacuzzis recommendations, doesn't mean it has to be done that way. I have done well over 100+ Jacuzzis  on pea gravel, crushed rock, sand, grass and probably some other chit as well.  I know for a fact you can do that with almost any spa for that matter, as long as its level and packed it would be fine.     The way your spouting about it sounds like its the only thing that spa has going for it.  Since your engineers were raising the bar with a base thats made of fiberglass rather than ABS and the fact that the base of the spa comes with it if you decide to move it, is the dumbest statement I have ever heard!
  What it sounds like is if you move anybody else's spa the base stays there?  Well yeah the cement pad, deck, patio whatever is not going to go with the spa, but the abs pan,wood base structure of the spa is going with it. thats true of any spa.

 And since your engineers are raising the bar an ABS pan, fiberglass pan is not bar raising, How about coming out with a different type of filtration, instead of the 50 sq ft filter system in your 12.000 dollar Legend SE, the smallest Jacuzzi J-315 has 2 60 SQ ft.   Why don't they come out with a new style of jet,  Jacuzzi and Sundance both come out with new types and styles continuously to improve hydro therapy.   Same with filtration not so much in Jacuzzi, but Sundance is always trying something new and innovative.  I will say your ozone system looks good, but pretty much the same as D1 or Artesian has.

 All in all your spa is nice, and their every bit as nice as the next guys,  but you want bar raising talk to your engineers and tell them to think
And design something original.  Cause looking at your web site I don't see anything there earth shattering.

 I should add, the fact you can stand on your covers is cool, but why would you want to stand on it? In the last 9 years of being in the spa world, I have never seen a cover break cause somebody stood on it.

Im done with this now.

[Summitman]

  

 For one you are putting way to much in the base, yes base not floor of your spa, just because it says what it says in Jacuzzis recommendations, doesn't mean it has to be done that way. I have done well over 100+ Jacuzzis  on pea gravel, crushed rock, sand, grass and probably some other chit as well.  I know for a fact you can do that with almost any spa for that matter, as long as its level and packed it would be fine.     The way your spouting about it sounds like its the only thing that spa has going for it.  Since your engineers were raising the bar with a base thats made of fiberglass rather than ABS and the fact that the base of the spa comes with it if you decide to move it, is the dumbest statement I have ever heard!
  What it sounds like is if you move anybody else's spa the base stays there?  Well yeah the cement pad, deck, patio whatever is not going to go with the spa, but the abs pan,wood base structure of the spa is going with it. thats true of any spa.

 And since your engineers are raising the bar an ABS pan, fiberglass pan is not bar raising, How about coming out with a different type of filtration, instead of the 50 sq ft filter system in your 12.000 dollar Legend SE, the smallest Jacuzzi J-315 has 2 60 SQ ft.   Why don't they come out with a new style of jet,  Jacuzzi and Sundance both come out with new types and styles continuously to improve hydro therapy.   Same with filtration not so much in Jacuzzi, but Sundance is always trying something new and innovative.  I will say your ozone system looks good, but pretty much the same as D1 or Artesian has.

 All in all your spa is nice, and their every bit as nice as the next guys,  but you want bar raising talk to your engineers and tell them to think
And design something original.  Cause looking at your web site I don't see anything there earth shattering.

 I should add, the fact you can stand on your covers is cool, but why would you want to stand on it? In the last 9 years of being in the spa world, I have never seen a cover break cause somebody stood on it.

Im done with this now.

"is the dumbest statement I have ever heard"




So now Im dumb! Could of fooled me I thought I dominated this market that includes Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, Sundance as competition.  

[Water Boy]

Jimmy cracks me up.

Simmer down there Jimmy!!

[Summitman]

Well where do I start

1. "And since your engineers are raising the bar an ABS pan, fiberglass pan is not bar raising, How about coming out with a different type of filtration, instead of the 50 sq ft filter system in your 12.000 dollar Legend SE, the smallest Jacuzzi J-315 has 2 60 SQ ft"

How about our 900 square foot Micropure filter?  Would that be an upgrade on square footage?

[Water Boy]

 So whats the deal with the "Forever floor"?  Whats wrong with the normal floor of your spa that it warrants a forever floor?  Why not just put a forever floor in every spa?

  Curious as I don't have a arctic dealer around here to even sell against?

Jimmy.... Come on now you said so yourself that you don't even compete against a Arctic Dealer, so how do you know what they are and aren't doing??? No one ever said that the Jacuzzi pan was a bad thing did they?? or did I miss something here.

[Summitman]

2. "Why don't they come out with a new style of jet,  Jacuzzi and Sundance both come out with new types and styles continuously to improve hydro therapy.   Same with filtration not so much in Jacuzzi, but Sundance is always trying something new and innovative.  I will say your ozone system looks good, but pretty much the same as D1 or Artesian has. "

Uhh, we actually have come out with new jets, the past two years Arctic has introduced two new styles.  

Have you seen an Arctic or compete with Arctic, because it sounds like you are trying to learn directly off the website.  I will say that our website blows, and if ones trying to get a opinion off the site alone then the opinion wouldnt be a great one.

[wewannahottub]

Hey, guys, what about the WHOLE PICTURE!!!  I just gotta throw in my 2 cents worth

[BauerN]

Ooh, a nice off-topic side trip!  Well, a quick google gave me these:

• "PC/ABS 1851G10L is a polycarbonate/ABS blend that has been reinforced with 10% fiberglass by weight. The addition of fiberglass provides high tensile strength and rigidity while preserving optimum impact resistance." (http://www.mdayinc.com/data_sheets/pcabs/PCABS1000/PC-ABS1851G10L.pdf).  Note that they add fiberglass to it for "strength and rigidity" while the bouncy plastic ABS gives good "impact resistance".
  
• "Fiberglass...provide... a smooth finish on both sides, a controlled wall thickness, and/or ...compound curves, molded-in color, high strength to weight ratios...fiberglass-molded products also meet the FMVSS 302 flammability standard...Vacuum Formed ABS Plastic has become a standard for interior plastic parts...because of its relatively low cost"  (http://www.arrowheadinc.com/Projects/fiberglass-plastic-truck-parts.php).  
  

That's pretty clear - fiberglass is strong, ABS is flexible and cheap. I mean, 'low cost'.    

You can probably find some scientific data about shear strength, tensile strength etc. if you look.  Let us know what you find.

First,
JJ's post in response says a lot.  Jacuzzi is a company who has done it both ways, and now uses ABS.

Second,
after an in-depth Google session, I found a cornucopia of info on both.  Unfortunately, none pertaining to research as a spa base (or anything very similar).
Your first link is interesting in the use of 90% ABS, and only 10% fiberglass in the material.  It would seem the "core" ingredient is in fact ABS plastic.  Were fiberglass "clearly" superior, why isn't that ratio reversed?
Your second link is to a business selling fiberglass auto parts (not spa components) against plastic auto parts.  I doubt they're biased.  
In my search, I found a large number of auto part and other businesses on both sides.  Also, a number of forums discussing why one is better than the other - they go to both sides.  
We could spend a very long time posting links of other people's (and industries') points of view.  What will it accomplish?
My point had to do with no clear superiority between the two - IN OUR CURRENTLY DISCUSSED APPLICATION.  Both have advantages.  
Wood still works well, too.  I do prefer advancements in technology - but would I ignore the right spa from the right dealer because it was built with a wooden base?  Absolutely not.
Technology is an advantage, not an end-all.

*On one side note:  ANY person setting ANY spa on lawn or topsoil should consult a builder or landscaper as to the suitability of the soil.  The problem with doing this isn't the spa, it's the behavior of the base (edit: base meaning soil, lawn, etc.) throughout time and seasons.

[Summitman]

Jimmy.... Come on now you said so yourself that you don't even compete against a Arctic Dealer, so how do you know what they are and aren't doing??? No one ever said that the Jacuzzi pan was a bad thing did they?? or did I miss something here.

he took offense to my comments about the fiberglass being better than the abs, just so we all know I dont have a major problem with abs.  I just think, and remember its just MY OPINION, the fiberglass is better.  I can see why Jacuzzi would go with abs, its less expensive and ALMOST as good.

[East_TX_Spa]

Hey, guys, what about the WHOLE PICTURE!!!  I just gotta throw in my 2 cents worth

http://www.hotspring.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tub/spa_model_grandee.html

 

Termie

[BauerN]

Jacuzzi, Sundance, and Hot Springs don't exactly have reputations for being "cheap"...