Nature 2 users???

[Mendocino101]

A sanitizer means to reduce the number of microorganisms to a safe level. A sanitizer must be capable of killing 99.999% known as a 5 log reduction, of a specific bacterial test population, and to do so within 30 seconds. A sanitizer may or may not necessarily destroy pathogenic or disease causing bacteria as is a criteria for a disinfectant. One official and legal version states that a sanitizer must be capable of killing 99.999% of a specific bacterial test population, and to do so within 30 seconds.

A disinfectant is a chemical agent which is capable of destroying disease causing bacteria or pathogens, but not spores and not all viruses. From a technical and legal sense, a disinfectant must be capable of reducing the level of pathogenic bacteria by 99.999% during a time frame greater than 5 but less than 10 minutes.

The main difference between a sanitizer and a disinfectant is that at a specified use dilution, the disinfectant must have a higher kill capability for pathogenic bacteria compared to that of a sanitizer.

http://www.schiff-consulting.com/choosing.html

I believe the good Dr. is right. That these products fall under the disinfectant label for EPA. I do think they can be a benefit but they are also many times over sold, in the same way Ozone is. I think ozone and most the silver or like type products do aid in keeping your water safe but to think they are enough by themselves is where many get in trouble and is most likely due to a over selling sales person.

[Vinny]

Here we go again! Let me get a fence up!!!

N2 users | non N2 users

It may work just like ozone may work but it depends on your water ... I tried both N2 and the Frog and I don't see what the big deal is. My water using both WITH ozone only lasts 2 or 3 days unless I hit it with 10+ PPM chlorine.

I know my ozonator is garbage - hey it's a Del and I do plan on updating it this spring but IMO you're better off buying more chlorine or bromine with the money you spend on N2 or the frog. And then you get a real EPA certified disinfectant.

[104 degrees]

. I do think they can be a benefit but they are also many times over sold, [/quote]



More money for the dealers pocket

[Steve]

Here we go again! Let me get a fence up!!!

N2 users | non N2 users

It may work just like ozone may work but it depends on your water ... I tried both N2 and the Frog and I don't see what the big deal is. My water using both WITH ozone only lasts 2 or 3 days unless I hit it with 10+ PPM chlorine.

I know my ozonator is garbage - hey it's a Del and I do plan on updating it this spring but IMO you're better off buying more chlorine or bromine with the money you spend on N2 or the frog. And then you get a real EPA certified disinfectant.

What's the cost on N2 or the Frog?

[104 degrees]

What's the cost on N2 or the Frog?

n2 35 to 50 bucks every 4 months

[Steve]

n2 35 to 50 bucks every 4 months

Assuming that's accurate, is the overall savings really that significant? You are still required to shock and balance the water on a regular basis correct? I'm just not familiar with these products...

I can only guess that people don't purchase these for the cost savings. Kinda like ozone... the initial cost and future service negates the savings in chemicals though it "can" provide a window for users where their water might have turned on them..maybe...  

[Spatech_tuo]

Assuming that's accurate, is the overall savings really that significant? You are still required to shock and balance the water on a regular basis correct? I'm just not familiar with these products...

I can only guess that people don't purchase these for the cost savings. Kinda like ozone... the initial cost and future service negates the savings in chemicals though it "can" provide a window for users where their water might have turned on them..maybe...  

IMO, when it comes to n2 if the $35 every 4 months is in many way a hindrance then I'd say skip it. It helps but not to a great degree and doesn't save much on chems. It helps with water maintenance and for those who don't care much about having to put up $35 three X per year go for it.

Ozone is a different story IMO. I have seen the difference between a working ozone and a non-working ozone on a spa. I have seen people have great success on water management only to have troubles when the ozone died, hose got kinked, calcium build-up caused it to stop, etc and then all back to good after it was fixed. I've also seen people struggle and then add it and become big believers. To me it is WELL worth the cost as long as you’re getting a good unit (some are cheap and not worth it). Do you get your money back on chems saved? No, but what is ease of water care worth. to those who've had issues where it was a big help they always seem to thin its worth it. Those are just my opinions based on my experiences but I'm sticking to them.

[tinybubbles]

N2 is definately not a low cost alternative.  If you follow their instructions for the low chlorine recipe, you might not be using much dichlor but you are using MPS and that costs money too.   I agree with spatech that I won't make the money back that I spent on N2 or my ozonator.  I do have piece of mind that with my hectic life I can skip a day or two of adding dichlor or even take a vacation and still have clear water.  I've learned that nothing about owning a spa is cheap.  I get all my supplies at cost and I still feel like I'm spending money left and right.  We use our spa every day which means we use alot of chemicals.  On top of that there are replacement filters, testing supplies, scumballs, etc.  It's a good thing we get so much enjoyment out of our spa.

[Richs100]

All I know is that my water is a breeze for the last year and a half using N2 and the ozone system.  I have yet to run into a funky water day.  And as long as gas is under $5.00 a gallon (until the end of next week!), I can afford the cost of the cartridges.  

So....I don't know what does it, but I'm not gonna mess with a good thing!

[rphman]

WOW!! I asked this question as I've hadn't had any major problems with my spa, other than how to make my water last greater than 3 months!! I don't mind the cost of adding chems, or the daily routine, but looked at this as something easier (forget it and set it) to have better water with less maintenance. Maybe I should look into adding ozone??

[tony]

Well, right now I am not using ozone or silver and my water is perfect...and I mean perfect....but, the longest I go without adding chlorine is 48 hours.

[Spatech_tuo]

Well, right now I am not using ozone or silver and my water is perfect...and I mean perfect....but, the longest I go without adding chlorine is 48 hours.

The fact that your water is perfect as you are maintaining it has no bearing on whether N2 or ozone works. It simply shows that you can do without and still have great results and that doesn't surprise me. However, others may not have those same results and I KNOW some of it is probably due to people who are not as diligent as you may be in your water care.

I just personally find it much easier with a good ozonator added (and marginally easier with N2 added on top of that).

[tony]

The fact that your water is perfect as you are maintaining it has no bearing on whether N2 or ozone works. It simply shows that you can do without and still have great results and that doesn't surprise me. However, others may not have those same results and I KNOW some of it is probably due to people who are not as diligent as you may be in your water care.

I just personally find it much easier with a good ozonator added (and marginally easier with N2 added on top of that).

You are absolutely right.  I think we are saying the same thing.  My experience has been that N2 and ozone work, even better together.  For me in my partictular situation, they do not do a lot for me because I am on top of my water every day.

[BauerN]

Caldera's ozone system uses a Corona Discharge Cell, which is different than most other ozone systems.  It's output is more steady than both the CD Cell and UV units.

CD = corona discharge.  Simply put - "lightning in a box".  

Higher quality systems (like Caldera) use an electrode to do this.  Lower quality systems use a microchip (this may be what you meant by "cell").  

Electrode CD systems produce significantly more ozone, and have a longer life.  

Caldera is far from alone with this.  Sundance Spas offer a choice between the two (I believe Jacuzzi does as well).  Both Bullfrog Spas and Hot Springs Spas use electrode CD systems only.

  

Plus, the amount of ozone produced is much higher than the UV.

Yes, it is MUCH more effective.  The local manufacturer here (Mom & Pop type) hasn't used a UV system in three years.

*More on topic:  I've seen CD electrode system failures (d#$@ check valves) - the first clue was always a drop in water quality noticed by the spa owners.  

[tinybubbles]

I'm glad you brought that up Bauer.  It kinda lights a fire under my lazy bones.  I have a feeling that my ozonator isn't functioning properly but I keep forgetting to open my panel and look into it.  I ordered my spa without an ozonator because I have access to them at cost and I purchased a cd cartridge and not a cd chip.  My spa ended up coming with a cd chip ozonator on it so they just let me have it at no additional charge.  I just left in on there, but I think you convinced me to take that off and put on the better one that I purchased.  I'll be curious to see the difference.  You mentioned clog check valves.  How do you tell if one is clogged?