Nature 2 users???

[rphman]

Do you think using a Nature 2 cartridge maakes any difference in your water care / water quality?? I don't have ozone in my Caldera Moorea, haven't had any big problems with Dichlor in my 6 months of ownership. Just wondering if it would cut down on adding chems to the water.

[Mendocino101]

For me that's a tough call and no matter if your speaking about the frog, N-2 or any other name for a mineral or sliver add on. In theory they are really supposed to work and it is backed up by the EPA for at least the frog. In simple terms what is supposed to take place and this not the technical version but basically the silver will help soften the walls of bacteria thus requiring less bromine of di chlor to safely sanitize your spa as well as making the water feel softer. In the real world it seems sometimes hard to tell if they make a real noticeable difference. I like them... as I relate it to days when people used to throw a silver coin in the fresh drinking water when they crossed the oceans my completely unscientific logic tells me they seemed to have a practical reason for it, so I figure they were on to something....

[Pathfinder]

My research tells me it really doesnt do too much.    There is a good debate on the other forum about this product.

[104 degrees]

Do you think using a Nature 2 cartridge maakes any difference in your water care / water quality?? I don't have ozone in my Caldera Moorea, haven't had any big problems with Dichlor in my 6 months of ownership. Just wondering if it would cut down on adding chems to the water.

It did nothing for us.

[Richs100]

All I can do is compare my old tub, without N2, to my new with N2.  
It sure seems like the water is easier to maintain with the N2 cartridge.  I rarely have any problems with my water now. (except for some mold on the pillows)  So, in my case, I'm gonna keep using it.

[Cyn]

Since I have ozone as well, I have no idea whether it is the N-2 or the ozone or the combo, but I have had to go for several days without treating my water (up to 5) and I have, so far, never opened my tub to green and/or cloudy water and when I add dichlor after that long a stretch it doesn't dissipate any faster than normal.  My guess is something is keeping up with the bacteria killing when I am not able to add dichlor.  

[Vanguard]

Just FYI, N2 is classified by the EPA as a sanitizer.  

I think if you were to use N2 by itself, you'd probably see no added benefits.

If you were to use it in conjunction with the Caldera ozonator, I think you'd get away with fewer chemicals - especially during the periods of non-use.  But I think you have to use both to get the benefit.  It's more of a system.

Caldera's ozone system uses a Corona Discharge Cell, which is different than most other ozone systems.  It's output is more steady than both the CD Cell and UV units.  Plus, the amount of ozone produced is much higher than the UV.

I have no science or data to back up all that I just said (except for the EPA approval).  This is just what I have found in my years of owning a Hot Spring and using both ozone and silver.  In times when one or the other was not functioning properly, I had to use more dichlor.

[104 degrees]

The only time my water got Cloudy was when i used the silver.

[tony]

Just FYI, N2 is classified by the EPA as a sanitizer.  

I think N2 is taking liberties with some wording on their web site.  There are only three registered EPA sanitizers, still.  Nature2 is an approved sanitizing system.

I found a combination of N2 and ozone would enable my water to last longer when there was no use.  N2 alone or ozone alone did not give the same results (for me).  Ozone is a powerful oxidizer and my experience seems to validate what N2 states...N2 with a lot of oxidizer will work to sanitize your spa, especially when no one uses it and is not overwhelming it with bacteria.

I found that heavy users don't get as much a benefit from either N2 or ozone.  

[tinybubbles]

I've been asking myself this same question.  One thing I've learned that is important, is the fact that the epa doesn't give guidelines for swimming pool or spa water.  Sanitizers and disinfectants including N2, chlorine, etc. are registered as pesticides.  They test them against blood borne pathogens, viruses, etc.  The products we use in our spas are being tested as if they were treating medical waste, bodily excretions of an infected person, etc.   To be registered with the EPA as a disinfectant you must be effective against the stated pathogens, viruses, etc.  To be a sanitizer you must kill 99.9999% of the pathogen, virus, etc. in 30 seconds or less.  Some products can be used as both a disinfectant or a sanitizer if you follow different useage instructions.  The epa's requirements for pesticides are far more stringent than guidelines for healthy swimming water proposed by the CDC and other public health organizations.  I think Tony makes a good point in that silver cartridges have no oxidation capabilities and our spas have a strong need for this.  I think the dichlor we add does alot more oxidizing than sanitizing, because most of us just aren't adding that many pathogens into our water.   We are mostly adding sweat, dead skin, etc.  There is someone on another forum that is purchasing a spa pilot chlorine generator for his spa.  Even with that product, you have to add MPS before and after every soak.  I think that with N2 you can virtually eliminate chlorine useage, but you are substituting it with MPS which is just another chemical.  So N2 is a low chlorine product but not a low chemical product.  Tony has told me before that when following N2's instructions, he had to use much more MPS than the amount of dichlor he is now using.  I think the product does work if you add enough oxidizer.  As individuals we just have to decide it that's right for us.  

[104 degrees]

I've been asking myself this same question.  One thing I've learned that is important, is the fact that the epa doesn't give guidelines for swimming pool or spa water.  Sanitizers and disinfectants including N2, chlorine, etc. are registered as pesticides.  They test them against blood borne pathogens, viruses, etc.  The products we use in our spas are being tested as if they were treating medical waste, bodily excretions of an infected person, etc.   To be registered with the EPA as a disinfectant you must be effective against the stated pathogens, viruses, etc.  To be a sanitizer you must kill 99.9999% of the pathogen, virus, etc. in 30 seconds or less.  Some products can be used as both a disinfectant or a sanitizer if you follow different useage instructions.  The epa's requirements for pesticides are far more stringent than guidelines for healthy swimming water proposed by the CDC and other public health organizations.  I think Tony makes a good point in that silver cartridges have no oxidation capabilities and our spas have a strong need for this.  I think the dichlor we add does alot more oxidizing than sanitizing, because most of us just aren't adding that many pathogens into our water.   We are mostly adding sweat, dead skin, etc.  There is someone on another forum that is purchasing a spa pilot chlorine generator for his spa.  Even with that product, you have to add MPS before and after every soak.  I think that with N2 you can virtually eliminate chlorine useage, but you are substituting it with MPS which is just another chemical.  So N2 is a low chlorine product but not a low chemical product.  Tony has told me before that when following N2's instructions, he had to use much more MPS than the amount of dichlor he is now using.  I think the product does work if you add enough oxidizer.  As individuals we just have to decide it that's right for us.  

How much MPS do you add after your soak? How many gallons are in your spa?

thanks TB

[Vanguard]

I found a combination of N2 and ozone would enable my water to last longer when there was no use.  N2 alone or ozone alone did not give the same results (for me).  Ozone is a powerful oxidizer and my experience seems to validate what N2 states...N2 with a lot of oxidizer will work to sanitize your spa, especially when no one uses it and is not overwhelming it with bacteria.

I found that heavy users don't get as much a benefit from either N2 or ozone.  

Kind of what I said:  "I think if you were to use N2 by itself, you'd probably see no added benefits.
 
If you were to use it in conjunction with the Caldera ozonator, I think you'd get away with fewer chemicals - especially during the periods of non-use.  But I think you have to use both to get the benefit.  It's more of a system."

[Spatech_tuo]

I found a combination of N2 and ozone would enable my water to last longer when there was no use.  N2 alone or ozone alone did not give the same results (for me).  Ozone is a powerful oxidizer and my experience seems to validate what N2 states...N2 with a lot of oxidizer will work to sanitize your spa, especially when no one uses it and is not overwhelming it with bacteria.

I found that heavy users don't get as much a benefit from either N2 or ozone.  

I agree with your first paragraph. I don't agree with the second one. Heavy users will certainly get a benefit as well (especially from a good CD ozone unit) but they certainly have to utilize their chlorine because ozone and N2 only do so much. If a spa his going to have multiple users getting ozone is REALLY a wise move IMO.

N2 and ozone are great to have but NOT with the idea that you'll use MUCH less chems but more from the standpoint that you'll run into fewer issues where you are chasing your water to clear it up. Sure less chasing leads to less chems but not in a major way. Fighting with water quality is a pain and from that standpoint I’m a huge Ozone fan and to a lesser degree a fan of N2 as well.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

A sanitizer means to reduce the number of microorganisms to a safe level. A sanitizer must be capable of killing 99.999% known as a 5 log reduction, of a specific bacterial test population, and to do so within 30 seconds. A sanitizer may or may not necessarily destroy pathogenic or disease causing bacteria as is a criteria for a disinfectant. One official and legal version states that a sanitizer must be capable of killing 99.999% of a specific bacterial test population, and to do so within 30 seconds.

A disinfectant is a chemical agent which is capable of destroying disease causing bacteria or pathogens, but not spores and not all viruses. From a technical and legal sense, a disinfectant must be capable of reducing the level of pathogenic bacteria by 99.999% during a time frame greater than 5 but less than 10 minutes.

The main difference between a sanitizer and a disinfectant is that at a specified use dilution, the disinfectant must have a higher kill capability for pathogenic bacteria compared to that of a sanitizer.

http://www.schiff-consulting.com/choosing.html

[tony]

I agree with your first paragraph. I don't agree with the second one. Heavy users will certainly get a benefit as well (especially from a good CD ozone unit) but they certainly have to utilize their chlorine because ozone and N2 only do so much. If a spa his going to have multiple users getting ozone is REALLY a wise move IMO.

N2 and ozone are great to have but NOT with the idea that you'll use MUCH less chems but more from the standpoint that you'll run into fewer issues where you are chasing your water to clear it up. Sure less chasing leads to less chems but not in a major way. Fighting with water quality is a pain and from that standpoint I’m a huge Ozone fan and to a lesser degree a fan of N2 as well.

I only say this because daily chlorine users who dose to 3 ppm after use will have no issues in their water in 24 hours...at least this has been my experience.  I use the same amount of chlorine using ozone and N2 as I do without as per the Vermonter instructions.  My water stays nice both ways.  But I believe I am the exception.  Not everyone uses their spa every day.  Maybe it would be more accurate to change heavy users to regular daily users.  If I skip a day or two, now I am chasing.  This is where ozone and N2 paid dividends.  If you have multiple users...take all the help you can get.