Small brown dots

[Vinny]

No, I don't think PH being in the 6.6 range for a week will eat a heater up.

[Chas]

No, I don't think PH being in the 6.6 range for a week will eat a heater up.

I would agree, especially on a newer tub.

 8-)

[Chad]

No, I don't think PH being in the 6.6 range for a week will eat a heater up.

I would agree, especially on a newer tub.

 8-)

Thanks guys.
Leslie's was closed yesterday, so no water analysis yet. Are those test strips that can measure for minerals like copper, iron, etc ...any good at all?

[Chad]

Update-

I had the water tested at Leslie's and sure enough it's high in copper. I still don't know the culprit though. I got in touch with Jacuzzi Jim and he thinks it's highly improbable that it's my heater core. Maybe it's the Nature 2 or maybe my tap water is just high in copper. Or maybe a combo of both. Or maybe it's not even copper deposits and something that just looks like copper and it's just a coincedene that my water is high in copper. :-/ :-?

[Bonibelle]

Are the pipes in your house copper and could your tap water Ph be low?  do you ever see green in your sinks or bath tub around the drain?  Acid water can eat the copper from the pipes. I wonder though if it would be enough to cause what you are experiencing. :-/

[Vinny]

It was suggested to me that electrolosis (sp?) of the pipes can cause the pipes to errode too.

[Chad]

Are the pipes in your house copper and could your tap water Ph be low?  do you ever see green in your sinks or bath tub around the drain?  Acid water can eat the copper from the pipes. I wonder though if it would be enough to cause what you are experiencing. :-/

My pipes are copper and my tap water has a pH of 8+ppm and an alk of 120-140ppm.
I don't ever see a green residue around my drains but my tap water does however have a green tint to it. I wasn't thinking ahead and forgot to bring a tap water sample to Leslie's along with my spa sample.

It was suggested to me that electrolosis (sp?) of the pipes can cause the pipes to errode too.

I'm not familar with electrolosis Vinny. If you could explain it to me I would apreciate it. I think I'm googled out for the day.

Thanks,

Chad

[Vinny]

What happens is that if there is any electrical current being applied to the coper pipes the copper will be sent into the water. It doesn't have to be a lot just enough (milliamps) to get this process going. This was explained to me by my water company when I asked why my water had a green tint to it. It was during the summer and I believe it was from the trees overhead. I do have low PH water in my township which might contribute to some of this I guess.

I doubt that electrolosis is the case in most houses simply because all the plumbing is grounded and I would think any short to ground (hot to ground or neutral) would cause a breaker to trip.

[Tonyf]

How do you go about neutralizing copper if it is in your spa? Maybe you will need to have water delivered as a possible solution.
Tony

[Bonibelle]

I think the metal gone product will remove the copper if you use it when you refill. (I don't have time to go all the way back, but I think I remember Chad saying he didn't remember to use it this time he refilled)

When I refill, I typically put in my old filters and let the metal gone (or what ever metal sequestering product you use) do it's job before I add any other chemicals. I once had a tub of greenish water, so I know to wait a while, especially before adding my bromine. After the tub is up to temp and I balance my water, I pull those filters. Mine are usually full of iron.  

When my domestic water filters are left off (or I am out of neutralizer in my tank, I see green in my sinks, so I know I have a copper problem at times from my pipes) :-/

[BauerN]

Chad - based on the 50-some other posts I've read in this topic, this does not look to be a mineral problem.  In a wide range of mineral contents and years with a copper based sanitation system - I've never seen this from a mineral.  

Some similar manifestations but none to match (from minerals).

Aside from that, the fact that they disappeared when your pH dropped (and at 6.6 your dichlor became very "agressive"), strongly points to a bacterial or algae (my best guess) culprit.

I understand you take GREAT care of your spa, the truth is some of the hot water "pests" we deal with are extremely resistant when they get a foothold. One or two days of low sanitizer or high pH can start this.  As they say "happens to the best of us".

Usually, righting the pH and sanitizer over a few days or week will solve the problem.

I've seen similar things, although never with a health side effect.  Every time I've seen skin infections, there were no visible tells (save for slightly cloudy water).

I hope this helps - hate to see a guy worry himself out of his spa.

[Chad]

Thanks for taking the time BauerN. I really do apreciate it.

I had my tap water analyzed today along with another sample of my fill water.
My tap water is .2ppm lower in copper than my fill. So something I've added to the water or something from the spa must be contributing a significant amount of copper.

.2 ppm copper is the maximum amount allowed to be present in a spa before a metal remover should be used. Anything over 1ppm and a refill is needed. The "pool and spa chemical specialist" at Leslie's gave me some stuff called Spa Metal Free. It's a metal deactivation agent that is suppose to prevent staining and discoloration from trace metals. He said that this should prevent any more dots from forming but will not "get rid" of the existing ones. So today I scrubbed all the existing spots off and added the product. I guess I'll know within a few days whether or not this is a mineral problem.

I brought him pictures of the spots and described, as best I could,  what exactly was going on. He thinks it's copper spots and the likely culprit is my heater but he told me not to rule out the Nature 2. He's seen such problems as mine from both but it's more likely, in his opinion, that it's the heater core. Only time will tell I guess.

Thanks for all your concerns everyone. Hopefully I will get a little piece of mind in the upcoming days.

Chad

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Hey Chad I just called Jacuzzi tech. And like I thought the element itself is stainless steel, he doubted there was any kind of copper in there at all as far as wiring holding the element in place.  I really am starting to think its partly the nat 2 and something else causing it??

  If your heater is falling apart from the inside, (first I would have ever seen from laing) it will start tripping the breaker pretty quick, I would think.

[Chad]

Thanks alot Jim.  

[tony]

Hey Chad I just called Jacuzzi tech. And like I thought the element itself is stainless steel, he doubted there was any kind of copper in there at all as far as wiring holding the element in place.  I really am starting to think its partly the nat 2 and something else causing it??

  If your heater is falling apart from the inside, (first I would have ever seen from laing) it will start tripping the breaker pretty quick, I would think.

I was thinking the same thing.  Jacuzzi heaters are either SS or titanium.  I don't think the spa N2 cartridge contains copper either...silver and zinc I believe.