I am finished looking at hot tubs

[loosenupspas]

I have done my patient best to remain on the sidelines in this ongoing.....and dull thread.  Most businesses are motivated by profits and some do it better than others.  A consumer must determine if the retailers product, ie hot tub is fairly priced and meet or surpasses their personal sense of value.  When the equation clicks a transaction occurs.  This thread, errrr.....rope is so caught up in minuitae.  Profits are a good thing.....you want a dealer to remain in business then  they need money, similar to most other businesses.   Hot Tub retailing is a fairly straight forward business, profit margins are consistant from dealer to dealer across the industry.  I don't understand what people are thinking, that selling hot tubs is a license to steal....it is not.  Corrupt business practices, gross over pricinng of products and the like is not a good model, those people will fail.  Honest, open and fair wins more time than most. I understand that a quality hot tub is expensive and the decision making process should be complete before purchasing one.  In the end buy it, just buy it.  I don't see any blogs for prospective furniture shoppers, there is a business with very high profit margins.  Try womens shoes for outrageous mark ups.  Look the dealer in the eye and be honest with him/her and they will do the same with you.  But if they don't move on  to the next one.  Consumers need to be up front too............

[rubadubeh]

Do you really expect a dealer to share this publicly.  It's rather personal, don't you think?  Like us asking you what your salary is.  

.

 It was stupid of me to ask.  I was just trying to get a sense of how much a dealer makes on a tub and what his profits go towards, like delivery and install, maintaince, warrenty work etc...  I was trying to get a feel for why it is so hard for Solo to strike a deal.

 BTW,  I am in sales and personally do a 2-3 million $$$ per year.   There is no secret between me and my clients that we are turning a profit.  If a customer is bold enough to ask, I will gladly tell him the margins I make.   My customers deal with me for one of 3 reasons,  my service is good, my price is good, or due to a personal relationship.
 I pride myself on being open and honest and customers appreciate that.  
 

[hottbpete]

Profit margins are the business owners business....not yours.  If you do not like his pricing or he has not given you a compelling reason to pay the extra price...then don't.
By the way... do not sell tubs...just an owner of one and an owner of a business.  The market is so open now with advertising and blogging and all the rest that it equalizes the price for most people.  We price our proiduct at what the martket will bear....not at reasonable profit margins.....if the market will bear a 1,000% market up...so be it and thank yhe good lord.  If it's only 10%....well I wouuld get out of that business.

[hottubdan]

Solo,

At this point, what are their offers and what are your counter offers?

Are you offering anything other than a lower price?  Maybe you can pick up spa at warehouse.  Maybe take a floor model.  Prepay/not use a credit card.  Use a cheaper lift.  Compromise.

It doesn't make sense to me for you to expect any dealer to simply drop his drawers and bend over.  But, meeting half way...maybe.

[solo]

I certainly don't expect dealers to bend over for me, nor would I want them to.  I simply know what I'm willing to pay for something and don't bend from that.  I then let the dealer decide if it is in his best interest to sell me a tub.  I'm not mad at them if they don't.  I trust that they know what will be good business decision for them.  

If I were going to take the "meet half way approach", I would have started my offers with a much lower number.  Rather, I chose not to play that game and made firm cash offers.    I did that with 2 dealers and will probably do so again real soon with a 3rd.  With the next one I might make the offer face to face rather than over the phone.  If they see that I am actually ready to write the check and not going to pick up the phone and shop the price, maybe that will make a difference.  

[hottbpete]

Solo-
how much do make in a year?   (rhetorical)

divide that over the hours you are spending.......

$500 ?

If youb are good at what you do......spend time doing that and you will earn much more then the savings of $500

[Spatech_tuo]

With the next one I might make the offer face to face rather than over the phone.  If they see that I am actually ready to write the check and not going to pick up the phone and shop the price, maybe that will make a difference.  

LOL, I always assumed you were making these offers in person. Dealers will not be comfortable agreeing to your sale price over the phone for a couple reasons. Show real interest and show up on the showrooom floor.

[loosenupspas]

most retailers are sharp when it comes to judging a customers intentions.  the offer, cash check plastic or whatever, must first be reasonable.  if you spend hours with a sales person, lob a low ball offer at them, well lower than reasonable.......the consumer should not get mad if its not accepted...the dealer should be angry because so much time was wasted with someone who doesn't understand the product......doesnt see the dealers value proposition or does and still lobs out a low ball offer.  not all customers are good customers.......

[solo]

most retailers are sharp when it comes to judging a customers intentions.  the offer, cash check plastic or whatever, must first be reasonable.  if you spend hours with a sales person, lob a low ball offer at them, well lower than reasonable.......the consumer should not get mad if its not accepted...the dealer should be angry because so much time was wasted with someone who doesn't understand the product......doesnt see the dealers value proposition or does and still lobs out a low ball offer.  not all customers are good customers.......

I disagree.  Nobody should get mad, not the dealer, not the consumer.  It's a business proposition.  Why take it personally?  

If after we spend an hour or two TOGETHER, why should the dealers time be more important?  The sales person sells the value of the product.  If you can't sell your potential customer on the value of your product, why be upset at them?  Be mad at yourself that:

1.  You didn't do a good enough job selling your product and it's value or worth
2.  You didn't recognize sooner someone that they would never see the value

In any case, if you must get mad, be mad at yourself.  Or better yet, keep smilling and hope the next one works out better.  

[tinybubbles]

I'm curious:  did most of you base your spa purchase solely on price?
Dealers, is that the primary motivator of most customers?  This is not a judgement solo, we are all different.  For me, budget was an issue.  But, not the issue.  I could never have lobbed offers out to 3 dealers of different brands of spas and taken whichever one bit.  I can understand taking the best price from, say, two different jacuzzi dealers.  It seems like the logical progress of events would be:  First, find the tub you like the best.  Next, find the dealer you like the best that carries that tub.  Finally, negotiate a price that you can be happy with.  I'd be a tad concerned with any dealer that was willing to sell a tub for an unusually low price.  Are they hurting for business?  Will they still be in business for the duration of my warranty period?  The salesmen where I work tell people that we will never win their business based on price.  We don't volley back and forth with prices.  When a customer tells them that another company gave them a lower price, the salesman tells them that they hope they enjoy their purchase.  How come?  We are good at what we do, we have a great reputation, and we build a quality product.  There are plenty of people out there willing to pay our price.  No need to accept low ball offers.  There are plenty of fly by night companies out there for that.  They will be out of business before their listing in the yellow pages expires.   We have earned a right to charge a high end price for a high end product.  I am assuming this translates to the spa industry.

[Steve]

 With the next one I might make the offer face to face rather than over the phone.

  I laughed soooooooooo hard when I read that! Are you serious Solo or were you hired as a comedy act here?

Now if we could teach you to Photoshop you could even outdo Term!

Signed,
shortbus (whatever that means....)

[Seahawk]

Solo,
We all know that you see the value in the spas you are considering.  The problem here is that you have decided that your amount of spending is capped off, so it is a complete waste of time for the dealer/salesperson.  When you spend a fair amount of time with a potential customer you tend to build a relationship with them in hopes of earning their business.  Most companies want to earn your business, keep you happy, and hopefully (and with you) a big hopefully you find enjoyment in your spa and refer more people to enter the dealer's showroom.  When a potential customer is UNWILLING to compromise on a sale price because of unreal expectations it does tend to rub a salesperson the wrong way.  Whether it should is a complete different thing.  No it's not personal when a customer doesn't purchase a spa, but, it does leave a bad taste in our mouths.  Companies have to have integrity in what they sell.  If one of the companies meet you price requirements what will happen when you recieve your spa, enjoy it, and start to refer people to that company.  The second thing you will tell your friends (stated loosely) what the price of the spa was that you paid.  Now, if you were to purchase either watkins product for that price, you would have received that steal of the year.  That being said, if one of your referrals happen to come through the doors, they would expect the same price.  Do you see yet how just one customer effects the entire flow for a company?  Each potential customer is worth 10-15 times more than their original purchase.  You're asking a company to potentially loose a considerable amount of revenue.  Just imagine your clients over time reducing your wages,  not real fair is it?  I don't expect you to agree with me because of your narrowed way of thinking.  Close to everyone on this site is very tired of seeing your posts.  Now we are just people posting on a forum and you can piss us off.  We aren't even trying to sell you a spa.  Now imagine the salesperson trying to deal with you.  Can you see why the would be angry at a customer such as yourself?  Good Luck!!!

[Cyn]

We bought our spa at the price the dealer gave us, no discussion.  We actually had no idea that you could talk down the price of a spa as if you were buying a car.  We shopped the different brands and wet tested and knew the various prices.  That was it.  I am not sure if we would have tried to get the dealer to come down in price even if we knew that was a possibility.  I have never liked the idea that an item is "priced" according to how much lower an actual bid for the item might come in.  If you can get a lot off the list price, then the list price is way too high.  After all the dealer is making a living selling the spas.  Why would he ever agree to discount the spa to near what he pays for it?  And why is it so very important to to play cut throat and get every last dollar possible in your own pocket when putting in a bid?  No one every really knows how good a deal her gets anyway...  Yes, the very fact that we didn't try to get the lowest price on our spa most likely means we didn't get it for the lowest price.  We knew what we wanted as far as size and price and we got it.  I was more appalled by the price to put in the electric...now that was way, way too expensive!!!!

[loosenupspas]

hooray for cyn.........

[tinybubbles]

Ok cyn, you get the "common sense of the year" award.  How dare you make spa shopping so simple?  I bet you even have the nerve to enjoy your spa.  Don't you want to spend a little time doubting wether or not you got the "best deal"?