I am finished looking at hot tubs

[Steve]

PS...Why tell other posters in the forum what posts to respond to?  Do you think that you are msarter than them or that they should listen to you for some reason?  Just curious.  Maybe I'm just more into independent thought than you are.  But I feel that most people in this group are probably smart enough to decide on their own which posts they want to read and reply to.  

And a previous quote from the village idiot... OH...and "SMARTER" should be a word that you spell properly!

"PS...If people don't want to read about my every move, why click on my posts?  I enjoy posting in this forum and it looks like a number of others enjoy reading and responding.  If you don't want to know, don't read."

Now I'm confused. Should I not read his posts cause he said so, or do I put on my "pull ups" and be a big boy and make my own choice? Hmmmmmm :-/

[hottbpete]

This string is at least fun to read....


Solo-  In the ennd your right....you will buy when your ready.  My question to you.....what was the last thing you bought ....lets say that cost more then $750

Are you this particular about spending your dollars on every purchase?

I have to admit, I am tight with the buck.....but the one thing you do after you finish an exhaustive search and buy....is say.....jes, I should of done this sooner.

Hope you get a tub ......sooner then later.

[hottubdan]

Solo,

The only reason I encourage you to "buy, buy, buy" now, is because you say it is truly for therapy.  And, you have stated you have a source for the extra money.  Seems like you are punishing yourself.

[solo]

This string is at least fun to read....


Solo-  In the ennd your right....you will buy when your ready.  My question to you.....what was the last thing you bought ....lets say that cost more then $750

Are you this particular about spending your dollars on every purchase?

I have to admit, I am tight with the buck.....but the one thing you do after you finish an exhaustive search and buy....is say.....jes, I should of done this sooner.

Hope you get a tub ......sooner then later.

It took me 4 months to buy my last car even though I knew what I wanted on day 1.  I ended up buying my Honda Accord during the last week of December in the year I got it.  So on MAJOR purchases, I do a ton of research, establish my price, and wait for that price.  It's a practice that has saved me thousands of dollars through the years.  



  

[solo]

Solo,

The only reason I encourage you to "buy, buy, buy" now, is because you say it is truly for therapy.  And, you have stated you have a source for the extra money.  Seems like you are punishing yourself.

Yes, it is truly for therapy.  I was just diagnosed with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome.  This is a connective tissue disorder that effects 1 in every 5000 people or so.  I have gone from the guy that can bench press 350 pounds and squat 500 pounds to te the guy that is mostly doing cardio and doing light, circuit training on the nautilus machines.  It's been a painful transition and a difficult one both mentality and physically.

As for the extra money, I may not need it if I make a good deal on the jacuzzi.  I'd prefer to spend my money only.  But if I do end up getting a little help, I want to take as little as possible.  I believe in spending spomeone elses money just as frugally as you would spend your own.  

[ndabunka]

It took me 4 months to buy my last car even though I knew what I wanted on day 1.  I ended up buying my Honda Accord during the last week of December in the year I got it.  So on MAJOR purchases, I do a ton of research, establish my price, and wait for that price.  It's a practice that has saved me thousands of dollars through the years.  
  

Research is ALWAYS good!  That is EXACTLY what these forums are here for.  Your not the first newbie to come on here wanting to get something for nothing.  You are already seeing the effects of this learning process having realized that dealers are only willing to go so far without any benefit back to them.  If you can SHOW PROOF that you can generate 3 additional sales for them, then you can probably get the discounts you are seeking.  Consider starting a local buying club with your neighbors for hot tubs.  Narrow it down to one MFG and then all of you go in and work a deal.

Congrats on the Accord.  They are good solid reliable cars (We have owned 3 of them).  While it could be considered a "big ticket" item, they may not actually be that expensive (comparatively speaking).  I currently have an Acura TL as I saw the cost benefits of the leather (std), Memory seats (std), Sunroof (std), optional NAVI, Std Bluetooth integration 3 years ago before any other mfg was doing it as well as the updated styling and was "more than willing" to pay what I felt was a minor increase in price over the Accord

However, the fact that you bough the accord does demonstrate what type of buyer you probably are. If I was selling you a spa, I might see your car and ask you "how do you like the Accord" before EVER trying to even talk to you about Spa's.  It would help me understand what you want without even talking about Spa's.

If you reply. It's GREAT!  The BEST value for my money EVER spent!  I can't see why ANYONE would buy a Acura TL over the Accord because the TL is $8K more expensive....tells me the following:
           1.  You don't see a justification of a premium brand over the non-premium
           2.  You spend only what is needed to meet your transportation requirements
           3.  Reliability is more important that "frills"
           These are all GOOD things and can be used to help understand the best tub for you

My second question might be "Which engine did you get in it"?
           You may be thinking that I really care enough to drill into the car you like so much but
           the reality is that I am trying to further qualify you as a buyer.  If you respond "I got the
           Hybrid and can get 1.3 gazillion miles to the gal by hypermiling.... I then know that you
           place economy over performance and therefore you would probably also want a more
           economical spa rather than one with HUGE pumps (ala Bullfrog).
           PS - My wife's car is a Hybrid SUV.
                  Your response would tell me Wants power but wouldn't pay $2K for a NAVI system
                  built into the car when you could just as easily buy a $400 Garmen, right?

Based on these observations, I would probably lead you to either the Tiger River or 300-series Jacuzzi lines.  Seems the PREMIUM lines are just out of reach and you can't justify the additional $'s then these products "SHOULD" fit you to a T.  It not that salesman are trying to "down sell" you but rather that they are directing you to the products that seem to fit your nature.

In fact, you may well be able to buy one of those units for LESS than your current budget leaving cash left over.  In some cases the only things you are giving up in this trade off may be a basic as the tub having plastic escrutions instead of stainless steel ones (not a real big deal anyway and not something you would even think twice about a year down the road).

Guidelines for a typical Family of four (Homemaker working wife)...
Unless you (easily) make over $100K/year, don't bother with the highest line models, they aren't made to be sold to you (i.e. They generally won't discount them as much as you would like because the don't NEED TOO)

If you don't make at LEAST $80K a year don't bother with the mid-tier models as it may be a stretch for you to afford it as well as the $'s required for the installation ($900.00 or so in ADDITION to the tub itself for electricity, foundation, etc).

If you don't make at least $50K, don't bother with a hot tub as you are already (more than likely) struggling to simply make it month to month

Single Guy:
Premium line for those with over $70K/year in income
Mid-line for those with over $50K/year income
Don't bother for thos with less than $40K/year income.

NOTE: This may have been a long read but at least I broke it up into paragraphs this time! LOL!

[RK23]

Wow, that is some deep salary-spa analysis.  And actually makes a lot of sense.  Something tells me it's less about Solo's means, and more about what he's comfortable having spent on a hot tub as an educated consumer.

[D.P. Roberts]

Single Guy:
Premium line for those with over $70K/year in income
Mid-line for those with over $50K/year income
Don't bother for thos with less than $40K/year income.

This probably varies greatly by area. Where are you located?

[ndabunka]

This probably varies greatly by area. Where are you located?

The big city of Charlotte, NC (not really so big and the cost of living here is actually considerably cheaper than up north).  Taxes are about 25% here of what they are in NJ (new 4,000 sq ft homes on a new 4-star golf course with nearby shopping are $500K and property taxes are around $4,500/year vs. NJ where the same EXACT house by the same EXACT builder (but it not on a golf course) is $800K and property taxes are $18K/year.  Most middle class ($300K home) here make around $80K/year or so.  Those making between $100K and $150K live in neighborhoods like this one.  Like any other town, there is another COMPLETE level of income for others where they are bringing in WELL over $200K/year.  Some are dual income doctor/dentist husband/wife which almost seems common around here.  Those are the ones paying cash for the few million dollar 6,500 sq ft. homes in this neighborhood.  They are also the ones that might just pick out a tub based on if the color matched their decor rather than any concerns about price.  Too bad I never did start that Hot Tub business 3 years ago...

[Vinny]

The big city of Charlotte, NC (not really so big and the cost of living here is actually considerably cheaper than up north).  Taxes are about 25% here of what they are in NJ (new 4,000 sq ft homes on a new 4-star golf course with nearby shopping are $500K and property taxes are around $4,500/year vs. NJ where the same EXACT house by the same EXACT builder (but it not on a golf course) is $800K and property taxes are $18K/year.  Most middle class ($300K home) here make around $80K/year or so.  Those making between $100K and $150K live in neighborhoods like this one.  Like any other town, there is another COMPLETE level of income for others where they are bringing in WELL over $200K/year.  Some are dual income doctor/dentist husband/wife which almost seems common around here.  Those are the ones paying cash for the few million dollar 6,500 sq ft. homes in this neighborhood.  They are also the ones that might just pick out a tub based on if the color matched their decor rather than any concerns about price.  Too bad I never did start that Hot Tub business 3 years ago...

Someone making $80K a year isn't able to afford a $300K house with only 20% down. This is why the whole sub prime problem is happening. According to the banker I went to (the one who I went to for the mortgage on this home) a person's mortgage (PITI) is supposed to occupy only 28% of the monthly income. 28% of $80K is $22400 or $1867/month

Although if you sold a house in NJ and used that money for the purchase ... you'd be sitting pretty!

[ndabunka]

Someone making $80K a year isn't able to afford a $300K house with only 20% down. This is why the whole sub prime problem is happening. According to the banker I went to (the one who I went to for the mortgage on this home) a person's mortgage (PITI) is supposed to occupy only 28% of the monthly income. 28% of $80K is $22400 or $1867/month

Although if you sold a house in NJ and used that money for the purchase ... you'd be sitting pretty!

I'm not from NJ but agree that paying cash is never a bad thing.  LOL!

IMHO, the sub-prime problem was caused by the banks predatory lending practices (use of ARM's).  This made the condition you described even worse.  Banks are now asking for the government to bail them out of this (using our tax dollars).  It's a shame.  They want the profits but then expect that someone else will cover for them if they take took many risk.  I personally, was pleased to see the way the house committee treated it in the first hearing.

[D.P. Roberts]

Someone making $80K a year isn't able to afford a $300K house with only 20% down. This is why the whole sub prime problem is happening. According to the banker I went to (the one who I went to for the mortgage on this home) a person's mortgage (PITI) is supposed to occupy only 28% of the monthly income. 28% of $80K is $22400 or $1867/month

Although if you sold a house in NJ and used that money for the purchase ... you'd be sitting pretty!

One of the problems is that banks in many areas went way over the usual 28%. For example, a two bedroom condo that costs $100-$150,000 in most places costs $400-$600,000 there. People earn more there, but not THAT much more. So, banks let people borrow much more than the normal 28%. But because they can borrow more, they spent more, which meant that house prices just kept going up., which meant people had to borrow more, etc.

[D.P. Roberts]

The big city of Charlotte, NC (not really so big and the cost of living here is actually considerably cheaper than up north).  

Wait until Georgia runs out of water next year- you'll probably have half the population of Atlanta coming your way. That's sure to drive prices up.

[Vinny]

I don't know if it's the banks or mortgage brokers. The bank I went to told me I was tapped out at 28% and a mortgage broker told me I had another $250,000 more I can borrow. On my first house I had an ARM and it could go up or down 1% every 6 months (a friend of mine was a banker and he had it ... thought if it was good for him, it'll be good for me) and it was OK until we decided to have children and my wife stayed home - we lost 1/2 of our income! I was young and dumb.

The problem is 3 fold IMO - housing prices soaring (I couldn't afford my house today), strange mortgage plans (only pay interest on mortgage & balloon 5 year deals) and lack of dicipline on the part of money lenders (no income verification - what's that about).

I agree that the government shouldn't bail them out and even though they lowered the rate 0.5% it really isn't going to affect anyone except big banks and businesses. What pisses my off even more is that the responsible people that did the right thing are also suffering from what I hear. As far as I'm concerned if the mortgage lenders weren't disciplined enough to do the right thing then they deserve the ramifications of their actions.

I too thought about opening a spa store but I am worried as the economy worsens the fact that people won't have the money to buy. Even if it's in an affluent area my thoughts are that the people that would have bought them on credit at one point now are running away from their house - they're not looking at getting a tub.

[WannaSoakNow]

I AM CONFUSED!!!!

Why are all of you giving SOLO more advice and/or comments. He has made his choice that he "IS FINISHED LOOKING AT HOT TUBS", [glow][/glow] So, in my opinion the title speakes for itself.....he's done!!!!! Let him do what he neds to do, i.e. find and buy a spa!

Let's leave him/it alone. When he FINALLY Purchases A Spa & Proves It...POST THE PHOTO"S...Until then I am through with this nonsense....It makes me YAWN, big time!

This will be the last post I make to member SOLO, until he has a purchase of a PAID FOR SPA!!!! I am sooooo Bored with this....YAWN!!!!