Ozone.......

[rubadubeh]

When I was shopping for a tub, all the dealers explained to me that ozone was a option and how great it was but no one actually took the time to explain to me what it does.... nor did I ask...  
 I notice that my tub has a outlet and switch labled ozone.  Is this worth adding?  
 Also, can someone explain to me what ozone does?  In small words, please and thanks.

[In Canada eh]

rubadubeh,

  OK I'll take a shot at this since everyone is staying away.

Really basic, ozone is a unstable oxygen molecule.  It is a very powerful oxidizer and a indiscriminate killer, meaning it will oxidize everything it comes in contact with. The downside is it has next to no lasting residual so its converted back to oxygen in a matter of seconds.  There has been a lot of discussion and debate on the subject and its usefulness.  In a commercial or municipal water plant, ozone is very effective, in a Hot Tub there are many questions.

With out starting up the whole debate, you can do a search on ozone.  If you go back about 1 year you should be able to get lots of information so you can make your own decision.  FWIW my tub does have ozone and I'm happy with it.

[rubadubeh]

I heard that if you find a mouse in a beer bottle eh, you will get free beer eh?

Thanks In Canada,  You say you have it and you are happy....  What makes you happy??   Does it reduce chemical costs??

Chris in Toronto...

[Vinny]

Ozone does something in a tub but possibly not much.

It is as In Canada says a unstable O3 molecule that is looking to break the bond and will attach itself onto anything it can. It has been reported it can last up to a whole 22 seconds in the hot water. It's usefulness is probably associated with how much ozone an ozonator puts out and how much contact time it has to possibly attach itself to something. Keep in mind that in the microscopic world of electrons a 1/2 inch is as far as Pluto is to the Earth so that shows how effective it can be. Once the ozone bubble hits the water's surface it's done.

Does ozone work - I can say after experimenting on my own tub that yes it does - a little. My tub got a whole extra day before clouding up with bacteria using ozone 24/7. My ozonator isn't the most powerful out there and maybe with a more powerful one it would last longer.

But there can be downsides to an ozonator - it will attack the spa cover and spa pillows if it off gasses.

I plan on replacing my ozonator with a more powerful one in a few months. I may not use it if it produces too much ozone and off gasses to the spa.

[tony]

Ozone does something in a tub but possibly not much.

It is as In Canada says a unstable O3 molecule that is looking to break the bond and will attach itself onto anything it can. It has been reported it can last up to a whole 22 seconds in the hot water. It's usefulness is probably associated with how much ozone an ozonator puts out and how much contact time it has to possibly attach itself to something. Keep in mind that in the microscopic world of electrons a 1/2 inch is as far as Pluto is to the Earth so that shows how effective it can be. Once the ozone bubble hits the water's surface it's done.

Does ozone work - I can say after experimenting on my own tub that yes it does - a little. My tub got a whole extra day before clouding up with bacteria using ozone 24/7. My ozonator isn't the most powerful out there and maybe with a more powerful one it would last longer.

But there can be downsides to an ozonator - it will attack the spa cover and spa pillows if it off gasses.

I plan on replacing my ozonator with a more powerful one in a few months. I may not use it if it produces too much ozone and off gasses to the spa.

I agree, except I have gone the other route.  I have removed my ozonator.

[Spatech_tuo]

Does ozone work - I can say after experimenting on my own tub that yes it does - a little. My tub got a whole extra day before clouding up with bacteria using ozone 24/7. My ozonator isn't the most powerful out there and maybe with a more powerful one it would last longer.

I don't dispute any individual's experience with ozone but in my experience with my own spa and many hundreds I've dealt with in people’s yards I am a very firm believer in a good CD ozonator. The cheap $99 UV units aren't worth much IMO so I always want to qualify my statements that it be a good ozonator, have a good long contact chamber and this is also where I like circ pumps because you can get the ozone 24/7 (though I'd still like a good ozonator on a spa that filtered 4 hrs per day with a 2-speed pump if that's your setup).

[tony]

I don't dispute any individual's experience with ozone but in my experience with my own spa and many hundreds I've dealt with in people’s yards I am a very firm believer in a good CD ozonator. The cheap $99 UV units aren't worth much IMO so I always want to qualify my statements that it be a good ozonator, have a good long contact chamber and this is also where I like circ pumps because you can get the ozone 24/7 (though I'd still like a good ozonator on a spa that filtered 4 hrs per day with a 2-speed pump if that's your setup).

Thought I don't use my ozonator any more, my experience has been that ozone definitely helps manage water.

[Steve]

Here's a suggestion...

If you ever get told how wonderful ozone is and how much it will save you in chemical costs during your shopping experience, ask for data from them to back that information up... Watch the look you get...

In the past 15 years, I've heard anywhere from 10 -90% chemical savings with the addition of ozone. Granted, there are differing qualities of ozone out there. Mostly, it's just a tool used to sell more spas and increase margins so they come up with ficticious numbers to make it sound good.

Learn proper watercare and how to be proactive and ozone is not needed.

[Vinny]

I don't dispute any individual's experience with ozone but in my experience with my own spa and many hundreds I've dealt with in people’s yards I am a very firm believer in a good CD ozonator. The cheap $99 UV units aren't worth much IMO so I always want to qualify my statements that it be a good ozonator, have a good long contact chamber and this is also where I like circ pumps because you can get the ozone 24/7 (though I'd still like a good ozonator on a spa that filtered 4 hrs per day with a 2-speed pump if that's your setup).

I've asked this question before and never got an answer. Which are good ozonators and why?

I've found that the JED ozonator (model 103) puts out 4 grams per day. All Del ozonators put out about that or less (the company said their cd & uv ozonators put out the same ozone) and the prozone unit PZ-1 puts out 8 grams per day (according to prozone). I know there's balboa and probably others - which to choose.

I do have an UV Del ozonator that supposedly puts out as much as a Del cd ozonator. It runs through approx 10' of tubing and I posted my findings. Because I didn't get spectacular findings running 24/7 (one day is not spectacular to me) I feel that adding a higher output ozonator may give me those findings ... I'm willing to try.

[Vinny]

And ... the question still goes unanswered ...

[In Canada eh]

Hey Vinny

   I don't want to sidetrack this but in my experience CD and UV are two totally different animals.   Now I know this will cause a stir but I'll say it anyway.  Only CD units generate any significant amount of ozone that is not absorbed by the unit itself.  UV in the water treatment industry, is used a a sterilizer the fact that it produces a trace amount of ozone is only a byproduct and not its principal method.  The amount of ozone a UV bulb produces is actually absorbed by the lamp itself.  Basically it comes down to CD produces ozone gas along the same principal as a municipal water plant system does.  UV is a sterilizer also used commercially but mainly in the waste water industry.

  Now as for what CD unit is best,  sorry I can't help you there

[Vinny]

Hey Vinny

   I don't want to sidetrack this but in my experience CD and UV are two totally different animals.   Now I know this will cause a stir but I'll say it anyway.  Only CD units generate any significant amount of ozone that is not absorbed by the unit itself.  UV in the water treatment industry, is used a a sterilizer the fact that it produces a trace amount of ozone is only a byproduct and not its principal method.  The amount of ozone a UV bulb produces is actually absorbed by the lamp itself.  Basically it comes down to CD produces ozone gas along the same principal as a municipal water plant system does.  UV is a sterilizer also used commercially but mainly in the waste water industry.

  Now as for what CD unit is best,  sorry I can't help you there

Well I realize that most CD units produce more than UV but Del specifically told me that their CD and UV ozonators produce the same amount of ozone. I know that UV is used as a sterilant as labs turn on UV bulbs to sterilize large areas and apparently they are running water past it in dialysis units and even using UV for inside furnaces to kill germs (I guess it doesn't take much UV contact time). But I assumed by what I've read that UV excites the O2 atom to break apart and become O3. The other "interesting" thing is that the Prozone unit is a hybrid type (whatever that means) UV unit and it seems to produce more ozone than any other unit that I have found so far and has a lamp life of 20,000 hours - just like a CD unit (minus the lamp). How these companies test or come up with the figures is a mystery to me.

I was all set to go CD but after getting the info from Del and seeing the Prozone info, it just doesn't make sense.

[In Canada eh]

Vinny

   From what I have learned UV sterilizes all "bugs" that pass by the lamp.  So if you have 100 "bugs" in the tub and they all pass by the lamp you still have 100 "bugs", its just that they are unable to reproduce.  So in sense UV is very effective, its just not ozone.  The problem with UV is whats called "masking" when one bug hides behind another bug.
                                                                    The line between the two is being blurred kind of like calling all cola drinks a coke

Personally, if I was to upgrade or replace my CD unit I would look at a proper contact chamber that sits in a upright position,  I think Del shows one on their website.  Then add a 4-5 mg per day CD ozone generator.  The contact chamber will allow of gassing and you shouldn't have to worry about covers and pillows.  

  The hybrid units you mentioned would also be interesting and I think the combination of UV and ozone would be very effective

[Vinny]

I am leaning towards the Prozone unit. I thought about the degassing chamber but - it requires additional plumbing for circ pumps > 10GPM which I believe mine is and it requires an activated charcoal filter replaced every year ... both a a PITA to me.

My idea was to add a long length of tubing to the exsisting tubing to act as a contact chamber and hope for the best. As I have mentioned, my tubing now is approx 10' long so if I added another 14 to 20 ' I would double to triple the length ozone would have to travel and hopefully would bump into more stuff. I was even going to coil it and position the coils vertically to have the water travel up and down to give the bubbles more time to absorb ... mad scientist at work.

From their website:
 
Features

Prozone Patented Corona Hybrid Arc Tube harnesses the high ozone concentrations of Corona Discharge generators while maintaining the simplicity and reliability of VUV technology.
Optional Prozone Patented Dynamic Venturi Injector Bypass System allows maximum ozone/water mixing for superior water quality. The bypass also means a quick retrofit installation or replacement for all existing ozone generators.
Rugged, functional housing: heavy extruded aluminum case for durability; translucent gasketing glows when system is on.
Low cost, low maintenance operation
Warranty – 2 years
Compatible with all major spa brands
Easily retrofittable to existing spas

Specifications and Features

Prozone Patented Corona Hybrid Arc Tube
Voltage: Prozone Solid State Ballast
110 VAC 60 Hz or 230/240 VAC 50/60 Hz  
Connection: All common configurations available
Ozone Purity: 100%, no nitrogen byproducts
Arc Life (nominal): 20,000 hours
Operating Temperature: +25° F to +120° F
Weight: 3 lbs.
Dimensions: 8"W x 3½"D x 3"H
Case Construction: Extruded Anodized Aluminum

I'm sure some of it is hype as eveything else in this world has some, but if they can generate 8 grams a day that's an oweful lot compared to my UV ozonator.

[In Canada eh]

My idea was to add a long length of tubing to the exsisting tubing to act as a contact chamber and hope for the best. As I have mentioned, my tubing now is approx 10' long so if I added another 14 to 20 ' I would double to triple the length ozone would have to travel and hopefully would bump into more stuff. I was even going to coil it and position the coils vertically to have the water travel up and down to give the bubbles more time to absorb ... mad scientist at work.

.

Vinny

  The upright coils are a great idea, slowing down the water flow is important to allow for a higher contact time.

The mad scientist comment is hilarious.  I really hope that you and I haven't re opened the whole ozone debate again.  I guess we will see tomorrow if this threads post count triples in 24 hour, I blame myself

P.S. the activated carbon feature of the del contact chamber is a great way to control odour as well as adding a little filtering capacity.  We use granular activated carbon at work for taste and odour control and it works great