Will PH Decreaser eat metal jets if left to sit?

[squale]

I read on the back of my PH Decreaser bottle that when you put it in you should run all jets right away for about 20 minute straight.  But then others have said NOT to run the jets because it will bring the PH Decreaser (acid) into contact with the heater, pumps, etc. and it will corrode them.  So instead to put the PH Decreaser into the spa, let it sit for about 20 minutes, then turn on the pumps.  Problem is, when I put this stuff into the spa, it sinks to the bottom and often times will just sit onto of the Shiny Metal ring on the jets.  And the rest will just sit on the floor of the acrylic shell.  I'm afraid that leaving this stuff sit on the metal around the jets and the acrylic floor that it might actually start eating away at the jets, acrylic, etc.?

so it seems like a catch 22 here... damned if I run the pumps right away, damned if I don't.

[Steve]

Anytime you add any product into the water for balancing, you should turn the pumps on. Product sitting in the bottom of your tub has little value...

[Chas]

I have always given a range of answers to this question. If you want to do the method which is least likely to cause you any trouble with your spa, then mix the Dry Acid with warm water until it is completely dissolved. Use a plastic bucket, and you can just scoop water out of the spa, unless you need to add water and have a source of hot water handy. Once it is mixed, pour it into the center of the spa with all jets running.

The next step down would be to get the Dry Acid wet and pour it into the skimmer. I have lots of customers who do this: just keep an old bottle from some spa product handy. Measure and put the Dry Acid into that container and then gently fill it with water from the spa. Swirl or cap it and shake. Then pour off the liquid and refill. May take a few refills, but it's still faster than and easier to handle than the bucket. But some non-dissolved Dry Acid still gets into the tub - however it is already wet and dissolves faster.

The lower step after that would be to just toss the Dry Acid into the skimmer area with the jets on. It will coat the filters, and sit there safely until it dissolves and pulls through. With the jets running, there will be enough water flow that there should be no negative effects on the pumps or seals. Just be sure to run the jets for at least five or ten minutes. If you have a HotSpring or Tiger River Spa you can use the 'clean' button and it will run the jets for ten minutes and shut them off for you automatically. Nice touch.

The very worst thing you can do is to toss the Dry Acid into the tub directly. Even with the jets running - which is what I would recommend if you are going to use this warranty-voiding approach for some strange reason - the water will drop the dry stuff in almost the exact same place every time. I think if any of you have grit or sand that builds up in your tub you will attest that it is most often in the very same corner time after time. The Dry Acid, as well as Dichlor and MPS can and will damage trim, and the surface of the tub as well.

HTH

 8-)

[squale]

so you are saying put the dry acid directly INTO the filter area?  like take the filter lid off the Sundance spa, and pour the dry stuff right into that area?  Sounds like that is only going to clog up the filters and then never make it's way through the rest of the water?   At least if you dump the dry acid into the center of your tub, it will sink down to the bottom and get sucked into the jet pump intakes at the bottom of the tub, then will go through the pump system and get shot back out into the water at different places in the tub, and by this time it should be fully disolved in the water?

the premixing part is just too much of a pain in the ass for me..

[Steve]

Premixing is important for certain products and I should have mentioned it.

Is there not a concern for putting any acidic product directly into the skimmer that this will cause very low pH going directly to the pump and heater, therefore prematurely eroding those componants?

I've never heard of adding granular pH down directly into a spa with the jets running and having any concern at all of voiding a warranty. Is that specific to HS?

[squale]

yeah I never heard of any warranty voiding issues with this as well.  In fact both the directions on the bottle of PH Decreaser AND the directions on my dealers BioGuard chemical printout BOTH say to just add the dry PH Decreaser directly into the spa water and keep the pumps running for about 15 minutes.  Nothing is said about premixing the stuff or adding it into the filter area?

[tony]

Dry acid is not as quick dissolving as other chems such as baking soda or dichlor.  I dilute dry acid in a five gallon bucket and pour in.  I rarely ever have to add dry acid to my spa but I add diluted mix directly into my skimmer in my pool.

[The_real_Clown_Shoes]

As a rule of thumb, don't add the spa water to the acid unless you are in a well-ventilated area and keep your face away from it.  Adding water to any type of acid will cause it to gas off a little bit.  Using trace amounts should be fine, but I've had people think they could add water to anything they wanted to mix up.  Doesn't work so well with Calcium Hypochlorite.

[squale]

I just run the pumps on high, take the dry acid and slowly pour it into the water that is moving good from the jets.. as soon as the dry acid hits the water it is getting all sorts of tossed around and I'm sure disolves pretty quickly.  I then let the pumps run on high for a full cycle (20 minutes) before they automatically shut off.

[Steve]

I just run the pumps on high, take the dry acid and slowly pour it into the water that is moving good from the jets.. as soon as the dry acid hits the water it is getting all sorts of tossed around and I'm sure disolves pretty quickly.  I then let the pumps run on high for a full cycle (20 minutes) before they automatically shut off.

That's what I've done for years! Really the only product I predissolve is calcium hardness increaser which tends to be large granuals.

[Brewman]

I've added plenty of Ph decreaser directly to the spa with pumps running- no apparent ill affects.
 I now use Muriatic acid instead of Ph decreaser, and I do exactly as Chas said.  Take a plastic bucket, scoop in some spa water, add the acid, swirl to mix, then gradually introduce to spa water, pumps running.  No problems, just have to handle the muratic very carefully- it's pretty strong.

[Steve]

I've added plenty of Ph decreaser directly to the spa with pumps running- no apparent ill affects.
 I now use Muriatic acid instead of Ph decreaser, and I do exactly as Chas said.  Take a plastic bucket, scoop in some spa water, add the acid, swirl to mix, then gradually introduce to spa water, pumps running.  No problems, just have to handle the muratic very carefully- it's pretty strong.

Muriatic acid should only be used to lower VERY high alkalinity and a clear understanding of its impact should be known prior to use. It's far too strong to moderatly adjust pH. And yeh...it ain't fun to handle it...

[Brewman]

My tap water is very high in alkalinity- and just to get it close to in range I was dumping in 2 full spa sized containers of Ph decrease, so I started using the muriatic to save money and to lessen the amount of add-in's when I changed water.  
 I also use it when my Ph or alk drifts up- you just have to add relatively small amounts- an ounce or so at a time.  Just like the dry chemical, you develop a sense for how much to use.  
 I much prefer it now to the granular Ph decreaser.  A one gallon container of muriatic costs about $2 and lasts a good long time.   Just don't get any on you.   

[squale]

what's the benefit of using Muriatic acid over PH Decreaser dry acid besides that it's cheaper?

does one work better than the other?  does one have a higher tendency to corrode your metal in the tub, or do some other sort of damage, etc.?

So far my tap water started at 240ppm Alk and 8.7 PH on Sunday when I filled the tub.  Today after 8 ounces of PH Decreaser I am down into the 150ppm Alk and 8.1 PH range.  I probably will have to do another 2 ounces I would imagine later in the day today to get my numbers good.

My calcium hardness is high up around 300+ppm but that's just my well water doing that, so since I can't lower the hardness of the water I just run stain and scale chemicals to PROTECT the spa components from the hardness of the water and build up it can create.

[Steve]

What you're doing is perfect and you seem to have a good grasp on watercare.

Don't worry about muriatic acid. If your alk was 500ppm+ you could consider it. It's not used to adjust pH (Brewman is the only person I know that does) but rather to bring down extremely high alk.

It's just far too powerful to make moderate adjustments in pH and can easily overshoot the readings you are trying to accomplish.

Just a heads up...once you have your alk where you want it, leave it for 2-3 days and then test pH. It sometimes takes a bit for it settle out and many people overcompensate their pH by not letting it settle over time.

Steve