Is this method of chemicals overkill?

[squale]

2004 Sundance Altamar, with CD Ozonator, 24 hour circulation pump, 385 gallons of water.

Put new water in tub...

1.) Adjust TA, Hardness, PH
2.) Put in DiCholor to get free chlorine up to 2-3ppm
3.) Install SunPurity N2 cartridge in the filter door. (where the Bromine usually goes.)
4.) Get in tub and soak away!
5.) After each use of tub, add more DiChlor, run tub for 10 minutes, test water and try to maintain about 2-3ppm of Free chlorine after 15 minutes of dosing.
6.) Once per week, shock tub with MPS.

So basically I am using Dichlor just about everyday, I have an N2 cartridge in there as well, I have the ozonator running, and once per week I shock with MPS.

Do you think this is overkill or right on the money to keep a clean, safe and healthy tub?

Thanks

BTW... with the N2 cartridge my dealer said I could keep the free chlorine all the way down in the .5ppm range, but I think that's too low and don't trust that.  Also on the N2 instructions it says to use MPS after each soak instead of Dichlor... but then the footnotes say you can substitute DiChlor for MPS.  I am going to use DiChlor after each soak and JUST use the MPS for my weekly shocking.

[SerjicalStrike]

That sounds like a great routine.  

I agree with Tony's statement in another thread.  Take the directions from the Nature2 cartridge and throw them away.  

[hottubdan]

If maintaining 2-3 ppm free chlorine, why use the Nature2?

Seems to me you are throwing money away.

[squale]

well I agree that it seems like a waste of money, BUT... what if you don't use your tub for a few days, we all know that Free Chlorine levels that may be 2-3ppm just 15 minutes after dosing might very well be close to nothing after a few hours of dosing.  So if you don't use the tub for the next day or two, basically you have NOTHING sanitizing in there.. so this is where I find that the N2 cartridge should become of benefit... at least you still have the silver in the N2 killing bacteria when the chlorine is basically very low or non-existant.

[txwillie]

Pretty good routine. I would not use MPS however, as it lowers PH and increases TDH pretty quickly. I use dichlor after each use and shock with dichlor based shock every 1-2 weeks or if I get any foam or cloudiness. I used bromine and MPS on my first tub and had a very hard time keeping the water looking nice. Always chasing PH because bromine and MPS both lower PH. After a couple of weeks, TDH would be so high that the water effervesed (fizzed like alka seltser). Could not keep the water more than 2 months, then had to dump and fill.

My suggestion: stick with dichlor. Get the alk up to 120-140 and PH will lock in. Don't use anything other than dichlor and PH/TA modifiers, ie: no anti-foam, no clarifiers and NO BROMINE.

I have had my tub since January and have drained it once. Current water is about 4 months old, so I will probably drain soon, but it is crystal clear, no foam, no scum, no fizz, no cloudiness at all.

txwillie

[tony]

If maintaining 2-3 ppm free chlorine, why use the Nature2?

Seems to me you are throwing money away.

You cannot maintian any constant ppm free chlorine without a feeder system.  If you add enough dichlor to reach 2-3 ppm free chlorine there is enough sanitizer to give your spa a thorough cleanning.  Your free chlorine level will drop to near zero in about twelve hours.  That is the theory of the routine.  It is impossible to maintain a .5 ppm free chlorine level.  It sounds good on paper but doesn't work in the real world.  The N2 will help keep the water after the free chlorine level drops.

Since I soak almost every day, I don't use N2 anymore.  IMO, daily soakers do not get the full advantage of using silver.  If I was a weekend soaker or twice a week soaker, I would probably go back to using it.

[squale]

can things like STD's, etc. be transmitted through the water.  I also worry about that when you are in a tub with other people that you don't know so well.. what if they have some sorta STD or something going on, could you get it from being in the same spa with them... and even more likely if the free chlorine level is basically at zero at the time of soaking?

[tony]

Pretty good routine. I would not use MPS however, as it lowers PH and increases TDH pretty quickly. I use dichlor after each use and shock with dichlor based shock every 1-2 weeks or if I get any foam or cloudiness. I used bromine and MPS on my first tub and had a very hard time keeping the water looking nice. Always chasing PH because bromine and MPS both lower PH. After a couple of weeks, TDH would be so high that the water effervesed (fizzed like alka seltser). Could not keep the water more than 2 months, then had to dump and fill.

My suggestion: stick with dichlor. Get the alk up to 120-140 and PH will lock in. Don't use anything other than dichlor and PH/TA modifiers, ie: no anti-foam, no clarifiers and NO BROMINE.

I have had my tub since January and have drained it once. Current water is about 4 months old, so I will probably drain soon, but it is crystal clear, no foam, no scum, no fizz, no cloudiness at all.

txwillie

This works well too.  You can shock with chlorine when your combined chlorine level reaches .2 ppm to eliminate chloramines.  I prefer MPS on a regular basis and not allow chloramines to form in the first place.  Both ways work.  I find my free chlorine levels last longer shocking with MPS.  TDS has never been an issue, ever in my spa.  I change my water max every four months.  CYA, though, builds up very quickly if you shock with dichlor.  You can use buffered MPS if pH is an issue, but my water naturally drifts down over time and a little baking soda does wonders.  I much prefer bringing pH up than bringing pH down.

I only disagree regarding the alk.  I like mine at about 80 so my pH will drift down.  If my alk was that high, my pH would keep rising.  This just may be differences in our source waters.  Thats another thing to bring up...source water and soaking habits differ so my routine may not work exactly the same for someone else.

[tony]

can things like STD's, etc. be transmitted through the water.  I also worry about that when you are in a tub with other people that you don't know so well.. what if they have some sorta STD or something going on, could you get it from being in the same spa with them... and even more likely if the free chlorine level is basically at zero at the time of soaking?

I am not really qualified to answer that, but I do not believe STDs can br transmitted through the water.  There are other micro organisms, etc besides bacteria to watch for such as viruses and parasites.  That is why a true santizer is needed.  If you are having a group of people over you may want to add a little dichlor before use.  The problem is that people bring lots of bacteria into a spa, being the small body of water it is.  More people means more bacteria and whatever sanitizer you have in the water can be quickly overwhelmed.  This is no different with bromine.  The bromine floater is set to maintain a certain level under certain soaking circumstances.  If those circumstances change, the bromine spa will be overwhelmed.  Generally you would shock when everyone got out to reactivate the bromine.  With chlorine, we add dichlor when everyong gets out.  More people means more dichlor to reach that 2-3 ppm level.

If there are questionable people in the spa, bring your free chlorine level to 5 ppm before they get in.

[squale]

Tony could you be more specific on your exact chemical treatment?  You say you use MPS regulary, do you mean only once per week as a shock?  or are you putting in MPS after each soak?  

if you look at the N2 directions, they call for MPS after each soak AND once per week as a shock.  But I don't want to do that, I am going to use DiChlor after each soak and ONLY use MPS once per week for shock.  I DO NOT want to shock with DiChlor UNLESS I need the additional sanitizing benefits such as after having friends or something in the tub (people that are wearing bathing suits and may not have showered first before getting in the tub.)

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

If maintaining 2-3 ppm free chlorine, why use the Nature2?

This tends to be a common thought, that I don't think is quite accurate. The 2 to 3 ppm of free chlorine is supposed to be measured 15 to 20 minutes after adding it. Regardless of any "alternative" product one might be using, this is the standard. So, the real question becomes, HOW MUCH chlorine does it take to achieve this reading? Since some to much of the chlorine will be exhausted during the first 15 to 20 minutes, oxidizing and sanitizing what's in the water, if it takes LESS chlorine to achieve this level, the "alternate" product has a benefit. How much less chlorine it take to achieve this level would determine how beneficial this "alternate" product is................... How to determine how much less chlorine it takes to achieve this level............well, that;s still a mystery  

[tony]

Tony could you be more specific on your exact chemical treatment?  You say you use MPS regulary, do you mean only once per week as a shock?  or are you putting in MPS after each soak?  

if you look at the N2 directions, they call for MPS after each soak AND once per week as a shock.  But I don't want to do that, I am going to use DiChlor after each soak and ONLY use MPS once per week for shock.  I DO NOT want to shock with DiChlor UNLESS I need the additional sanitizing benefits such as after having friends or something in the tub (people that are wearing bathing suits and may not have showered first before getting in the tub.)

I will start by saying...don't look at the N2 directions.  I have tried and tried to use N2, ozone and MPS with weekly dichlor shocks and ended up always with cloudy water.  It may work with people who use their spa once or twice a week, but not me...but I use mine almost every day..and thats not counting my wife or teen aged kids.

I use a slightly different version of Vermonter's method.  My spa is over five years old.  I started following Vermonter's routine almost as soon as I owned my spa.  It is very simple.  I change my water every four months.  Summers when there are TONS of kids in it, I change at two months.  I have a 2002 Sundance Optima which an 485 gallon 850 series spa...same series as yours...meaning we have the same electronics and the same filtering system...Microclean I with a 75 sf pleated filter and a 50 sf disposable one micron filter.  My spa came with Sunzone ozonator and I used the Frog until Sundance came out with the SunPurity which I used until about a year ago...so two years with Frog and two years with N2.

At fill, I add a bottle of LeisureTime Metal Gon to sequester metals.  I have a high iron, low calcium source water.  I add enough calcium increaser to bring my water to over 100 ppm.  When the water reaches temp, I add one tablespn dichlor after adjusting pH and TA (usually doesn't need adjusting).  After soaking, I add enough dichlor to reach 2+ ppm free chlorine (generally 1-2 tsp per person).  I run all jets(pump 1 on low) for a few minutes after adding chlorine with the cover open, then I close the cover and leave pump 1 on until it shuts off by itself after 20 minutes.  Because I do not use ozone or N2 anymore, if I skip more than a day or two, I will add 1-2 tps dichlor so not to go more than two days without adding chlorine.

Weekly, I test pH, total chlorine and free chlorine to determine if I have any combined chlorine and TA only if my pH is not stable.  I rinse my filters if they are really bad, but not as a general rule (usually needs it in summer with teens making a mess).  I shock with non buffered MPS.  The product I use calls for 1.5 tablespns per 500 gallons.  I run pump 1 for twenty minutes with the cover off.  I also add enough chlorine (usually bleach) to bring my free chlorine level to 3-5 ppm.  I like to do this weekly for a thorough scrub.  If I have any combined chlorine, I will shock with chlorine, but this hasn't really happened since using MPS weekly.

Monthly, I clean my pleated filter with LT filter cleaner and rinse well.  Every three months, I change my small filter.  Letting that go longer is not a good idea, IMO.

It is a good idea to have some foam out diluted in a spray bottle if you get foam and some clarifier if you ever have a hard time getting your water crystal clear.  I use it rarely, but it is worth having around.  I am on only my second bottle in five years.  LT Defender is a stain and scale that you may want to use to protect your equipment.

Thats about my whole routine.  I use a Taylor kit to test because I couldn't read strips, but I find strips work well for free chlorine levels.

[tony]

This tends to be a common thought, that I don't think is quite accurate. The 2 to 3 ppm of free chlorine is supposed to be measured 15 to 20 minutes after adding it. Regardless of any "alternative" product one might be using, this is the standard. So, the real question becomes, HOW MUCH chlorine does it take to achieve this reading? Since some to much of the chlorine will be exhausted during the first 15 to 20 minutes, oxidizing and sanitizing what's in the water, if it takes LESS chlorine to achieve this level, the "alternate" product has a benefit. How much less chlorine it take to achieve this level would determine how beneficial this "alternate" product is................... How to determine how much less chlorine it takes to achieve this level............well, that;s still a mystery  

How true!  

[squale]

Tony sounds good.  My tap water is from a well and it a bit different than yours.  I just filled my tub last night, heated it up to 101 and before adding any chemicals I got my water tested at my dealer this morning.  Here are my readings..

Total Chlorine = 0
PH = 8.7
Total Alk. = 220
Total Hardness = 305

I don't have much Iron in my water but my water is hard (I guess with Calcium).

So the dealer gave me my Bioguard printout and I have to add PH Decreaser to get my Alk and PH down.  I then need to add Stain and Scale Control to get my hardness down.

After these, I can add my Dichlor.  Then I will install my N2 cartridge, and put in my Dichlor after each soak.  Then once per week I will shock using ONLY MPS.  Or if somebody that I feel is "dirty" was in the tub, I might through some extra Dichlor in to get the levels up around 5ppm to give the tub more sanitizing and kill off any nasties that somebody might of bought in.

As for myself, when I soak myself I usually go in naked and try to shower first, so I usually don't bring much of anything into the water.

[tony]

Tony sounds good.  My tap water is from a well and it a bit different than yours.  I just filled my tub last night, heated it up to 101 and before adding any chemicals I got my water tested at my dealer this morning.  Here are my readings..

Total Chlorine = 0
PH = 8.7
Total Alk. = 220
Total Hardness = 305

I don't have much Iron in my water but my water is hard (I guess with Calcium).

So the dealer gave me my Bioguard printout and I have to add PH Decreaser to get my Alk and PH down.  I then need to add Stain and Scale Control to get my hardness down.

After these, I can add my Dichlor.  Then I will install my N2 cartridge, and put in my Dichlor after each soak.  Then once per week I will shock using ONLY MPS.  Or if somebody that I feel is "dirty" was in the tub, I might through some extra Dichlor in to get the levels up around 5ppm to give the tub more sanitizing and kill off any nasties that somebody might of bought in.

As for myself, when I soak myself I usually go in naked and try to shower first, so I usually don't bring much of anything into the water.

Sounds good.  You need to tweak it a bit to suit your needs.  Its not an exact science but chlorine gives you good control over your water.

Well water brings its own challenges.  Getting your pH and TA down will take a little work.  If you tend to be using a lot of dry acid, you may want to try muriatic acid.  I've never used it, but its supposed to work well.  Just have to be careful.

If total hardness is calcium hardness, then you are at the high end of normal and could definitely use a stain and scale for protection.