Looking for advice

[dkersten]

Hello, I am looking to purchase a hot tub for myself and my wife and 3 kids, and like anyone, want to make a well informed decision.  I have been shopping around my market area for a few years now, and now that I am ready to purchase, I am more confused than ever.  I live in Montana, and even though I am in our biggest city, it is not exactly the Mecca of shopping, so my selection is not spectacular, although I am learning that there are a lot of hole in the wall spa shops that I could choose from.  

I tend to get long winded, so you can skip to the next post for the summary if you dont like to read.

Even though I have been shopping for a hot tub for a few years now, I have not been able to get comfortable with paying a lot of money for something that is a luxury.  After careful consideration, and a realistic look at my savings account, a lot of money to me is over $6000.  That figure is where I start to think that I am wasting money that could be better used elsewhere, or more particularly, in the bank where I like it.  Honestly, I would feel great if I could get a hot tub in the $4000 range, but after shopping and researching, I WOULD be better off saving my money than buying a cheap hot tub.  So, with a comfort range of $5000-$6000, I hit the streets to find the hot tub that fits my family.

I had looked a lot at HotSprings in the past, simply because they seem to get the most favorable reviews, but their most entry level hot tub is at the top end of my price range.  I guess its like shopping for a Buick at a cadillac dealer.. I would rather buy the cadillac from the buick dealer.. maybe its just a personal quirk.  So HotSprings is out.

I went to one of the pool companies in town, and they showed me a last years model of a Catalina (I dont recall the model) with a lounger and 2 impressive looking corner seats, and a few other less fancy seats.  Turns out the salesperson is aquainted with my family, which is a bonus, as I would rather buy from someone I like than someone that I dont particular enjoy talking to.  The pool company he works for is one of the biggest in town, so that is a plus as well.  The tub itself has the mahogany sides which is not a dealbreaker, but the more I shop the more I think maintenance free siding might actually be good.  It has an ozonater, which I have come to the conclusion that it is a good thing as well.

A few weeks later, I went to the state fair, and on entering, there was a spa dealer, that I had never heard of, set up with a bunch of tubs.  I went to investigate, and was brushed off by the salesman without a second glance, which somewhat irritated me.  He was selling the artic stuff I believe.  Before leaving the fair, I went back to see if I could at least learn a little about the tubs.  The salesman noticed me and asked if I was in the market for a tub, and after answering yes, he replied with "let me show you why you should buy a hot tub from me instead of anyone else".  I immediately envisioned a used car salesman winding up for his pitch.  He told me how the surface of his tub is virtually unscratchable and while rubbing the edge of a quarter on it, and how any other competitor would never do this.  Then he went on about his filter which had "like iron and copper and stuff in it, and some other metals, and basically it uses 10 times less chemicals than any other brand".  He told me how his tub has insulation on the outside and around the tub, but there is air around it that is heated by the pumps, and that is better because if it were full of insulation, then the insulation would be cold in the winter and the water in the plumbing would have to heat the insulation, and would be less efficient.  He never mentioned ozonaters, and in the end, his basic run of the mill looking tub was $9k but if I bought now, he would knock $1k off it and the factory would knock $1k, so I could take it for $7k.  I left with his card, and a slimy feeling where I shook his hand.  I am sure this is a decent tub, but I wouldnt buy from this guy if it the tub only cost $4k.  (ok, I would, but I would still not like this guy).

Last weekend, I went to the other large pool guys in town, as they were advertising a spa sale.  They carry the Sundance line.  The salesperson I was talking to turned out to be my sons History teacher for the new school year, as well as a friend of some people at work.  The tub he showed me was the Cayman.  This tub has a circulation pump, which seems to be a plus IMHO, and it seemed pretty comfortable, although all the tubs to date werent all that comfy for me in the corners, since I have broad shoulders and a fairly tall torso (only 5'11").  The size was fine, and the features decent.  The price was $5600, but the ozonater was another $300.  Still in my comfort range though.

I stopped at Bullfrog spas.  I looked at the Tadpole line, and a pretty basic model with a really basic lounger and 2 of their "spa packs".  The salesman made some offhand comments about other brands I was looking at, which I didnt like, but to be honest, it was more comfortable than the others I had dry tested so far, and the price was good, starting at $5000 for the tub, throwing in a remote monitor and an ozonater (ozonator?sp), but there was an upcharge of $400 to get a different color.  My wife liked that one best, and the price was right on, but there is no air control, it just has air, which I dont like.  Basic tub, but thats not a bad thing.

[dkersten]

OK, so I am down to 3 brands, and frankly, I am really looking for advice on the brands versus the individual models.

I figure if I have a good brand to start with, the rest is just personal opinion.

So, given the choice, and a budget of no more than $6k, Sundance, Catalina, or Bullfrog (tadpole).

Any and all feedback is very welcome.  

There are many unknowns as I have never owned a hot tub, and the last residential model I was in was 25 years ago.  I think I will prefer to soak more than use the jets, but my neck and back definately need attention.  The weather here ranges from -40 to 110, and I will put this outside.  My kids are 7,9, and 13, and will likely use the tub quite a bit as they all love water.

Thanks in advance for comments.

Dave

[The_real_Clown_Shoes]

Sundance.

[sledjunkie]

You should be able to get the Bahia for around $6K and it has a great seating arragement for a family such as yours.

[hymbaw]

I'm not familiar with Bullfrog, so I've never been too impressed with Catalina, so I say listen to a Hot Spring dealer.

Sundance.

[hottubdan]

And I say give Hot Spring 1 more look.  Look at the Tiger River line.

If not that, then go with the Sundance.

[dkersten]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Bullfrog spas (in general)?  

The model I was looking at in the Sundance was the Cayman, which looks like a Bahia with a lounge seat.  

The bullfrog I was looking at only had one pump, has no air control, and circulates 4 hours per day at full speed.  It was the least expensive, and seemed to be the most comfortable for me, but was smaller than the others and had way fewer jets.

The Sundance and Catalina were similar in layout and size, with the catalina having a few more jets.  The catalina had 2 pumps, one runs low speed for circulation.  The sundance has a circ pump and a pump for jets.  The catalina had a waterfall, but had a wood cabinet.  The sundance has ugly plastic.. the redwood is orange and nothing close to my fence stain color, and the other choices were gray or natural wood colors.  

Bottom line is each has strengths and weaknesses for my tastes, but I want to make sure I have a good base to start with..

Can anyone tell me if I should avoid one of these brands based on things like insulation, pumps, controls, efficiency, quality, maintenance,  etc.  

Thanks!

Dave

[In Canada eh]

So, given the choice, and a budget of no more than $6k, Sundance, Catalina, or Bullfrog (tadpole).

Dave,

     We have a bullfrog 451 and absolutly love it!  In my opinion they make a good ,tub that compares well to the more mass marketed brands out there.  The tadpole line should meet all of your wants, I believe your looking at the 362 model.  The jetpacks are alittle bit of a gimmick but we ordered our tub with the jetpacks we wanted and positioned them in our favorite seats.  Seating was an issue with us also, I'm 6'1", wife is 5'2" and she was happy with the lounger because it was well sculpted and therefor she doesn't float.  The tub has been great, lots of jet pressure and we have not noticed an increase in aour electric bill yet.  

  We looked at the catalina when we were shopping, but the prorated warranty scared me away.  Sundance biulds a very good tub and have gotten favourable reviews.

   Take a good look at the bullfrog and if you have any questions post them here and I'll doe my best to answer.

[In Canada eh]

Sorry missed your last post

The tub your looking at is the same shell as ours but only has 2 jetpacks.  That tub has a 2 speed motor and its filter cycles can be changed, its default setting is 2 2hour runs 12 hours apart

[dkersten]

And I say give Hot Spring 1 more look.  Look at the Tiger River line.

If not that, then go with the Sundance.

Well, on this advice I grabbed my wife after work and ran to the Hot Springs dealer to take a look.  We looked at the Bengal in the Tiger River line, and we both loved it.  The corner seat was very comfortable even with my broad shoulders, and my wife liked that the lounger could be used both directions.  It has the circulation pump which I like, and it even has a waterfall, which is kinda cool.  

It doesnt come standard with an ozone system, but they will add it.  The color choices were very limited, but I decided that it would be fine to do a gray cabinet with silver surface, as a contrast to the reddish color of my fence and deck rather than the "redwood" that is so orange.  They quoted me at $5695 for the tub, and another $295 for the ozone unit, and they offered to throw in the steps.  Of course the cover and starter chemicals are included.  One nice feature is that they throw in the GFCI box.  So they are at $5990.

So is there anyone familiar enough with HotSprings pricing to tell me if I am in the right ballpark at this price?  I figure I can walk in later in the week and offer $5600 cash, in hundreds, all up front, and I am sure they will go for it.  In Montana there is no sales tax, so thats the straight up price.

Thanks for the advice on that, I didnt think I could even get in the ballpark with HotSprings, so I had all but written them off.  It was by far the closest to what features I wanted at the price I wanted to pay, without sacrificing the more important things (like quality).

Dave

[blakley33]

Sounds like you may have found the tub that is right for you and that is great.
I just wanted to add that you will not hear much of catalina on here but wanted to say that we have an 06 catalina and love our tub.
We also have a full warranty not a prorated one which you will hear alot about on here when it comes to catalina.
I wet tested alot of the major brands you hear on here and found that we liked the catalina the best.
Just wanted to give you a little insite from a catalina owner.
I think that in the end your dealer makes the difference and you need to buy from someone that you can trust and that is going to take care of you.

Good luck on whatever tub you get, and if you go with Hot Srings you for sure will not go wrong, They have great tubs as well, just was not the tub for me.

[In Canada eh]

Hey!

Don't count the bullfrog out just yet.  We paid $6900(can) or about $5250(us) for our 451(not the Tadpole line) and it has very similar features to the Tiger River.

[SpaGirlAZ]

I think you should look at the Palermo or Bahia from Sundance again. They both have 2 large pumps, plus a circulation pump. The Cayman only has 1 large pump, plus a circ pump, so the others are twice the spa power.

I also don't like the red (orange).. I have it on my Marin, and it's really loud (especially in AZ sun!). But, I have the Silver color, like the Tiger River you're looking at and I think it's fabulous. Especially with the LED light.. (you can get one of those on ebay or something if it's not included with the spa that you choose, they're well worth it).

I don't know much about Bullfrog, just have seen them at the trade shows many times. Also, Catalina's not a big player in my area either, so I can't say anything about either brand. It seems they have happy customers on here.

I think HS / TR is a really great product, and if your SD dealer wont go to 6K on the Bahia or Palermo, that IMO you should go with the TR.  

Good luck!

[windsurfdog]

dkersten,

Have you wet tested any of these tubs?  Nothing in your posts leads me to believe that you have.  You MUST wet test...even though a tub may look better or a dry seating may feel comfortable, a wet test will REALLY make the differences in the tubs stand out.  Please don't purchase without a wet test...you'll be glad you did.

Oh, and make sure you get a cover lifter included with your deal...that's the only thing in your Tiger River deal that I saw was missing.

Good luck.  8-)

[sledjunkie]

I'm sorry but I would NOT pay close to $6000 for a tiger river Bengal.
Check out the Sundance models as someone suggested. Also check out the Island series line from Artesian.
They will give you way better jet performance (therapy) than the Bengal.